http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2694690 <-- Is a well written petition that I signed and you should to. Now PLEASE stop filling up the forums with "New 3v3 is ****, bring back old"

COMMON ARGUMENTS ABOUT THESE POORLY WRITTEN GENERIC FORUM POSTS:

1. "This is turning into Dominion 2.0"

WHY?
Because there are 2 atars that you need to capture that give you slight buffs?
Because it has [insert shock and horror SFX here] a HEALTH relic in the middle? Because the play-style is more aggressive?

Which is, mind you what Riot intended this map to be from the beginning. A shorter, faster paced map in which you TEAM-FIGHT a lot.

This map isn't a shorter version of 5v5, nor was it ever intended to be. This map was made to harbour a completely different play-style and encourage team-fights, aggressive plays and constant map awareness. THE ONLY similarity that I can find between Dom and TT is the lack of wards, requiring you to keep constant map awareness.



2. "Too many OP Champs, too many bruisers."

This was also prominent in the old 3v3 map. You'll find that If you play Rengar, Jayce or Xin Zhao on the old map, they'll be just as good as they are on the current 3v3 map.

The 3v3 map has always had a focus on bruisers. As the map is about constant teamfighting, champions that have very good team-fighting ability are preferred over the squishy nukers which are easily countered.

However, the Shadow Isles has opened up the range of champions viable on this map. You'll find that more champions are actually viable on this map now. Provided you are with a good team-comp that can back you up, you'll find that some champions which previously did not work are now fairly viable.



3. "This map isn't the like the old 3v3, which felt more like a shorter version of SR"

I wouldn't exactly agree about "shorter" due to the turtling that happened but yes, you could effectively afk farm until late game, win a teamfight and slowly push to win. That wasn't what threes was designed for.

Allow me to point you to a quote from Riot. I'll put emphasis on parts which matter:

"With this in mind, we designed Twisted Treeline around teams of three players. Additionally, games on Summoner's Rift could run rather long, averaging around 35 to 45 minutes, which could be a prohibitively long time for a session based game. We wanted something that came in a 15 to 20 minute package.

In addition to these practical concerns, games on a map like Summoner's Rift were characterized by a long "laning" phase during the early game, in which players would focus primarily on leveling up, and movement outside of someone's assigned lane is minimal. We wanted to truncate the laning phase to bring additional emphasis to roaming the map and ambushing (or "ganking") lone opponents, as well as creating opportunities for exciting, early game team fights."

Even Riot stated when they were designing the original threes map that they did not want a passive, 5v5 playstyle.



4. "I miss Wards"

Warding in the old TT was a Pink Destruction fest. A ward placed in a key location wasn't expected to last more than 1 minute, forcing the team to be map aware. Wards were also used to check brushes where 3 enemies were predicted to be in.

The addition of Grez and Hextech Sweeper should be considered a replacement to the ward. Instead of buying 1000 wards only to use as a Fog of War limited CV, you can now use a free spell which has a longer range and more utility than a Ward to check key locations.



5. "The game plays nothing like the old TT"

Not really... The old Treelilne only had slightly more emphasis on grabbing farm and turtling. The rest was positioning yourself so that you could punish the enemy while they are trying to grab objectives/out of position.

Champions like Singed, Trynda*****, Lee Win... etc. were highly favoured as they had mobility/cc and had high sustain. Sound familiar to you? Oh wait. That's exactly the same as the current 3v3 map. I recall running high mobility ganking champions with my friends in the old TT and winning hard because either the enemy team weren't prepared for the Rengar or they were farming too often.
The new TT plays very similarly to the old TT. You still need CS, you still need to secure objectives and you still need to win. Games were adjusted to be faster paced, meaning that you had to balance fighting with farming and the turtling meta greatly reduced in viability to encourage counter play and not sitting there dragging minions to base.




To conclude my rant about Riot's envisioning of this map, UNLESS YOU are planning to make a post on HOW THIS MAP CAN IMPROVE, please just click on the link at the start of my post and sigh the petition. I'm tired of scrolling down the forums and seeing 3-5 "Omgnewmapsucksbringbackold".


(Edit, added in Wards)
(EDIT2, added in Meta)

(I personally like both maps in case you're interested)

People are upset because regardless of what Riot originally intended, what they made when they created (original) TT was a 3 player version of SR. Not a short/skirmish/teamfights/funfunfun game, but a 3 player version of SR.

People liked that. Yes, it had a ton of flaws. No one has ever argued that.

Riot then released dominion. Dominion is a short/skirmish/teamfights/funfunfun mode. Riot achieved what they were looking for when originally designing TT. Whether anyone plays Dom or not is a different question.

Riot then changed TT to SI. And they completely overhauled it, tending it much more towards the skirmish mode and away from the laning/teamfighting mode of a "3 player version of SR". We already have dominion (and now, proving grounds) for that.

Don't get me wrong, I hated SI when it came out, and now I don't mind it. But it's VERY different from old TT. And a lot of people loved old TT. TT with just a few fixes (thicken some walls to prevent the blink champions running crazy, scale dragon harder, add the new items) would have been great.

The original 3v3 map was honestly just a touch below the current one action wise. Skirmishes and early ganks still happened, ambushing teams at early game still happened and contesting objectives (namely Ebonmaw and sometimes smaller buffs) still happened.

The thing that myself and many others liked about the old 3v3 map is that you had the option to play defensive, turtle if you will easier. The new map wasn't a meta change, it was a design fix.

The jungle is made easier, more predictable and harder to hide in. The lanes are designed in a way to encourage more agressive play than before (more gank and hide spots at bottom to encourage jungle ganks, brush placement at top to make ganking slightly less predictable).

Altars are introduced not just as a sub-objective, but an incentive to fight. Think of the fights you can potentially have at the altar rivalling the full scale fights that happened at Grez mid-late game.

Laning is still prevalent. A 4/0 jungler can still be beaten by a properly farmed champion and balancing farming with team-fighting becomes much more prioritised due to the jungle changes.

Most of the complaints I've seen have been justified with change in mechanics, not meta-game. Looking back at the recording of all my old Twisted Treeline games, I've not noticed too much of a change in playstyle. Agressive plays are still rewarded when successful and punished severly when poorly planned out. Fights at Ebonmaw and Grez are substituted for fights in the enemy jungle or the Altars.

Have a look at a tier list constructed by Only Jaximus on the Hecarim release (http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-li...-hecarim-patch) and compare that to Sam's latest Tier list (found somewhere on the forums) on the latest patch. You'll see that high mobility bruisers who have utility are preffered, Singed is still in a very high tier and burst squishy APC's/ADC's are generally placed lower in the tier list.

Coming from some1 who has played 3s in season one and obtained the highest award of platinum then played again in s2 and obtained the highest award of diamond.... this new map is better then it was before. You dont have the turtling that happened before, you have a much wider range of champions (you can actually play ranged ad with the right team comp). But yes bruisers are more dominant then any other role, but guess what it was also before in TT. You dont have wards, honestly it doesnt matter before (once you got to high rating) only one side had wards cause all ne1 bought was pink wards so it led to one team snowballing just like it does now but you dont have to wait an hour for the game to end. Yes the current SI isnt the best but its improving and has much more room to do so then it did before. This is just my opinion but id rather not see the old TT return.

The main reasons I don't want it to return is because if it does SI will never get respect. Dominion wont compete with SI for being tourney viable just because of how it was built (kind of like how TT was). If you bring back TT it will split the player base which will harm it. Once you get higher ratings the queue takes FOREVER we literally sit there sometimes 10-20 minutes for every game I wouldnt want to see what would happen if TT was there as another queue.

no worries from chile supporting this cause!!

Bumpski because I feel more people need to see this...

bump

Yeah, new 3v3 is okay.
I still prefer having wards, because it allows for extended farming and easier comebacks with a strong team (in my opinion). I still have a liking for the old map because of its feel, but I can play the new one.

One thing I've noticed though, is: in the old TT, games were generally 3X minutes on average, the occasional 15 minute game and the occasional 50.
Now all games in normals last 20 minutes, and ranked games last 50 (or tryhard normals).

edit: bump for you?

Thing is, Wards get destroyed so quickly that Grez just trumps it in terms of it's utility. The layout of the map allows you to get a rough position of the enemy with 1 or 2 good Grez checks...

My game length is usually 30-35 minutes depending on how close it is O.o I seldom get 20 minute games...

Since people still haven't shut up about this... I shall give my rant a bump...