Originally Posted by Ergheis

AP Yi does not DESERVE to stay alive in teamfights. AP Yi is supposed to be a refreshing, guaranteed hit snowballer. If he was supposed to be a tank, he would be more of a sustained tank.

At the moment he's just a binary "if-you-don't-cc-the-heal-you-lose" champion. That's not fair, and if it was then we need to give single-target spellvamp to Katarina's abilities and let Swain's Snare refresh on kill.

Originally Posted by Ergheis

AP Yi does not DESERVE to stay alive in teamfights. AP Yi is supposed to be a refreshing, guaranteed hit snowballer. If he was supposed to be a tank, he would be more of a sustained tank.

At the moment he's just a binary "if-you-don't-cc-the-heal-you-lose" champion. That's not fair, and if it was then we need to give single-target spellvamp to Katarina's abilities and let Swain's Snare refresh on kill.

Originally Posted by doubleguac

I specifically said that I had no idea how to make ad yi more viable at competitive levels. I was just responding to someone who was comparing alpha strike to a dash. I do not think giving him a true dash would solve all of his problems.

My whole point was that Yi has trouble carrying as ad because in the late game he simply cannot expect to survive team fights with a straight ad build. You basically have two options late game:
1) run in with your team and pray they don't CC and burst you. Any good team will, and you will be essentially useless
2) run in late, after the enemy team has already engaged on your team and hopefully blown most of their cc and burst. This puts your team at a disadvantage at the start of the fight, and it's still a tossup whether or not you will get bursted down before you can really start putting out your damage.

Originally Posted by Galgus

Aside very niche situations, AD Yi exists as a three ability champion due to how rarely Meditate is useful.


Here are reasons it isn't very useful on AD Yi:

1. Yi's inherent frailty making him a target and the prevalence of interrupts add up to mean that he is lucky to keep it up for more than 1.5 seconds in a team-fight, and he tends to die the moment he is disabled.

2. The number of nukes that also interrupt channels make blocking damage with the skill highly unreliable.

3. With just a dab of lifesteal, Yi can restore more health by attacking than Meditating. This has the advantage of allowing Yi to still do damage, reposition, and generally not be a squishy sitting still uselessly.

4. AD Yi typically works in a very short time window in teamfights, trying to do as much damage as possible before being CC'd and focused. Meditate uses up precious time without helping against getting CC'd and focused.


To present its few strengths, I'll list some of the rare uses for Meditate on AD Yi:

1. Recovering small amounts of health when there is nothing to lifesteal. On a long cool-down.

2. While dueling the other Melee ADCs, Fiora and Tryndamere, it can help him survive their ultimates. It helps in a similar way against Kayle.

3. Karthus ult.

4. Zilean's Time Bomb.

5. Ultra-rare situations where staying alive two more seconds in a losing duel will mean an ally or turret saves you, but only if your enemy doesn't have an interrupt.


I understand that some find AP Yi's ability to heal in lane made the ability frustrating for some and led to nerfs on the PBE, but Meditate has only been a (relatively) reliable tool for keeping Yi alive in team-fights with AP Yi.

If Yi, a squishy carry who dives deep into fights, cannot use the ability to negate damage if not interrupted, what purpose does the ability serve?


I'm not calling for the ability to be kept the same, I'm asking for it to be reworked entirely if its heal function is seen as toxic where it is powerful enough to be useful.


If Riot wants the ability to help Yi survive longer in team-fights, I'd reccomend altering Meditate to work like a cancel-able Zhonyas.

With this, Yi could dodge any CC with good timing while accomplishing little if the enemy outplays him and saves their CC or uses it when not expected, giving him a skill indexed way to live longer in fights.

To preserve some of the spirit of AP Yi, they could also give such an ability a passive which would heal him on kill based on his Ability Power, but that may be superfluous.


Tl:dr

If Meditate's heal is considered toxic when it is strong enough to be useful, rework the ability rather than nerf it.

Originally Posted by Voidgolem

there's a difference between "keep you alive in a teamfight" and "Tank four dudes and an ignite with no lasting damage".

Originally Posted by Galgus

Aside very niche situations, AD Yi exists as a three ability champion due to how rarely Meditate is useful.


Here are reasons it isn't very useful on AD Yi:

1. Yi's inherent frailty making him a target and the prevalence of interrupts add up to mean that he is lucky to keep it up for more than 1.5 seconds in a team-fight, and he tends to die the moment he is disabled.

2. The number of nukes that also interrupt channels make blocking damage with the skill highly unreliable.

3. With just a dab of lifesteal, Yi can restore more health by attacking than Meditating. This has the advantage of allowing Yi to still do damage, reposition, and generally not be a squishy sitting still uselessly.

4. AD Yi typically works in a very short time window in teamfights, trying to do as much damage as possible before being CC'd and focused. Meditate uses up precious time without helping against getting CC'd and focused.


To present its few strengths, I'll list some of the rare uses for Meditate on AD Yi:

1. Recovering small amounts of health when there is nothing to lifesteal. On a long cool-down.

2. While dueling the other Melee ADCs, Fiora and Tryndamere, it can help him survive their ultimates. It helps in a similar way against Kayle.

3. Karthus ult.

4. Zilean's Time Bomb.

5. Ultra-rare situations where staying alive two more seconds in a losing duel will mean an ally or turret saves you, but only if your enemy doesn't have an interrupt.


I understand that some find AP Yi's ability to heal in lane made the ability frustrating for some and led to nerfs on the PBE, but Meditate has only been a (relatively) reliable tool for keeping Yi alive in team-fights with AP Yi.

If Yi, a squishy carry who dives deep into fights, cannot use the ability to negate damage if not interrupted, what purpose does the ability serve?


I'm not calling for the ability to be kept the same, I'm asking for it to be reworked entirely if its heal function is seen as toxic where it is powerful enough to be useful.


If Riot wants the ability to help Yi survive longer in team-fights, I'd reccomend altering Meditate to work like a cancel-able Zhonyas.

With this, Yi could dodge any CC with good timing while accomplishing little if the enemy outplays him and saves their CC or uses it when not expected, giving him a skill indexed way to live longer in fights.

To preserve some of the spirit of AP Yi, they could also give such an ability a passive which would heal him on kill based on his Ability Power, but that may be superfluous.


Tl:dr

If Meditate's heal is considered toxic when it is strong enough to be useful, rework the ability rather than nerf it.

Originally Posted by Voidgolem

Alpha gives you a second and a half of intangibility/projectile-pop, like vlad pool or fiora's ult.

Originally Posted by Gorsz

Someone please explain why they assume YI is "frail" "squishy"??

Do you guys ever.. I mean EVER look at champions base stats to make such deductions?

HE HAS ABOUT THE SAME BASE STATS AS IRELIA/AMUMU

HE IS NOT SQUISHY.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Irelia
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Amumu
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Yi