I've been thinking a great deal about the nature of the conflict between the Solari and their sister organisation. While we clearly have interesting avatars for both celestial bodies, with quite a bit of depth behind them, it really feels to me as though the conflict is rather meaningless. I can point to other similar rivalries in the setting and actually pick apart the ideologies of those involved, thus using that to for an opinion of who is 'right' and what both sides actually want. It feels to me as though this conflict essentially boils down to two factions looking to kill each other in perceived self-defence ... and really nothing more. Is there something that I'm missing here?

The Solari and Lunari, as organisations, are utterly lacking. We have no idea about the size of the Solari's operation, much less what their goals and ideals are, or what they do within Valoran. Things are even worse when it comes to the Lunari as they only have one canon adherent. It's so bad that I can't honestly say how the annihilation of the Solari would impact Runeterra - if at all. We don't know what they want, how they operate or just what their people believe.

Just for example: Ashe and Sejuani:

Ashe believes in a brighter future for Freljord through integration and trade with other peoples. She wants to finally bring her subjects some semblance of peace and order, bringing them together in a union where they can finally grow and take advantage of their talents and resources. She fights in League to show her nation's commitment to a unified Valoran and, in many ways, doesn't really want a fight with her 'sister'.

Sejuani is a traditionalist who believes she is destined to unite the peoples of Freljord. She sees Ashe as selling-out her people into the hands of their former enemies and those who would exploit them, weakening Freljord by encouraging its people to live more comfortable lives and abandon everything that once made them strong. She joined the League to upstage and, potentially, dethrone Ashe so she can guide her country back to where it should be.

Can you really say the same sort of thing for Diana and Leona?

Diana wants to kill all those who would deny her ideology the right to exist and Leona wants to stop the person intent on killing her and those she is sworn to protect. There's nothing political or especially deep behind this conflict because we don't actually know any of the Solari or Lunari's beliefs or positions. We know nothing of substance about these groups at all.

Beyond "The Sun/Moon is pretty great", what do these cults believe in and what sort of presence do they actually have in Valoran? What reason do we have to prefer one over another?

The Solari Tribe is very small, and as far as we know the only thing they do is guide the Rakkor. The Lunari are gone (I think) with only Diana left, the Lunari must've been destroyed a long time ago. The conflict isn't THAT much of a problem for Valoran, except Diana. She states that she will kill everyone that doesn't follow her beliefs. Now THAT might be a problem for Valoran.

I hesitate to use a Metzenism here but I think that the Lunari were a psychotic splinter-group that broke off from the Solari and now want to bring eternal night to Runeterra.

Now, this might just be Diana's objective, but consider this:

1) The Lunari were destroyed while the Solari were not. That means either something wiped the Lunari out and the Solari didn't care enough to protect them, or the Solari were the ones who did the deed.

2) The Solari seem fairly well-balanced. If they did destroy the Lunari, or let the Lunari be destroyed, then there must have been a rational, thought-out reason behind it.

3) The Solari worship the sun. The sun is a pretty good thing. Growing plants, providing vitamin D, it's generally considered a benevolent object (except when you stare at it, or fly too close). The Lunari worship the moon which, while beautiful, isn't going to sustain a planet on its own merits. ...Of which it has few, given that its light is a reflection of the sun's.

4) Diana was very bookish and shy from what I can gather. Then one day she puts on some fancy moon-armor and now she wants to murder everyone who doesn't share her opinion of the moon. Desire for acceptance aside, that is a breathtaking personality shift.

5) The armor, and the temple, had to be hidden from the Solari.

So my hypothesis:

The armor held some sort of memetic enchantment that made anyone who put it on into a Lunari zealot. The Lunari probably outfitted all of their people in this stuff, which probably means they were being controlled by someone. If not the leader, then by someone else who wants to see Runeterra plunged into eternal darkness (which would result in everything on the planet wasting away and dying).

The Solari figured this out (probably when the Lunari attacked them) and made it their mission to eradicate the rogue order and protect the world from their mysterious evil. I mean come on, the Solari have special heretic symbols that seem to have been made specifically to brand members of the Lunari and warn people of what they are. Given that they did this rather than immediately execute them tells me that they felt there was a chance to save them from the Lunari 'virus.'

And before you say it, no. The mark on Evelynn's head doesn't look remotely like one of those symbols.

Basically, the Lunari were lunatics. Eh? Eh?

Yeah, so, that's me ruminating about video games.

As astonished, and gratified, as I am to find you posting in my thread RB (Can I call you that?) I've got to disagree on a few points:

Number 4 has been expanded on by Rioters quite a lot, even if some of it is hypothetical. IronStylus has basically laid-down a 'tipping point' for Diana where she spoke with Leona, hoping she of all people would accept her, but was still rejected. Diana wanted some measure of peace with the Solari, even after she had broken away from them. The only reason she's committed to their absolute destruction is because Leona couldn't forgive her for the death of the Solari elders. Diana now believes that, if the only person who might have shown her tolerance will not, the only choice she has is to completely eliminate the Solari.

Your hypothesis is an interesting one, I'm just not really feeling it myself. It seems a little too clean-cut 'good and evil' for my liking - especially since Riot seem to have gone to great lengths to apply copious layers of grey to both sides' motivations. I'd be shocked if the Lunari, and all their agents, were turned into the outright antagonistic faction on such a grand scale.

Diana has no personal goals beyond the destruction of the Solari. She has no plans to build a cult following about herself or to expand the Lunari's operations. Nothing we know about the Solari suggests that their destruction would result in "eternal darkness", and the absence of the Lunari hardly led to endless days, so I don't see why Diana has to have apocalyptic intentions in the long run. Runaan even said one of the most tragic points of her character is that she genuinely has no idea what to do with herself after completing her mission. She's simply doing what she believes is necessary.

More to the point: Why would she have gone back to the Solari seeking acceptance, twice apparently, if she was being memetically controlled?

Still, I think this thread has been led astray from my initial intentions a little. I thought that this conflict was lacking somewhat because, in essence, Leona and Diana are the only players of any real importance. Runaan gave me some nice little details in the AMA thread which have actually led me somewhat away from that viewpoint. The Solari and Lunari still don't really have political positions, akin to those in any other major conflict, but that's because their avatars really are all that matters here. Diana and Leona simply matter so much more than the things they represent and everything else is marginalised as a result.

I'd like to know more about the actual policies, and inner workings, of the Solari and Lunari, but Runaan has managed to leave me pretty happy.

Thanks so much for posting here, RB. I love your stuff.

Number one, yes you may call me that <3

Number two, you're probably righter about this than I, since I was only paying attention to Diana's lore when I thought up that magical evil-people armor theory. All I saw was that she found some fancy armor and then became a super-powerful killer, though I suppose murdering a gaggle of geezers doesn't really take all that much power at all. She used to like these people a whole lot, but after she puts on her armor and gets mooned up, destroying them is the only thing she wants to do ever. Granted I also forgot about the "tried to kill her first" thing. That would make anyone bitter (take it from me)

I'm just concerned with what would cause the Lunari, who are apparently the kind of super-secret people that would hide mentions of their own temples within the archives of their sister faction (assuming sister faction), to get wiped out by the Solari, who would then do everything they could to try and erase the Lunari from history.

Diana's backstory makes the Solari, a group of people who "retire their mantles of war in favor of sun worship" into a kind of hyper-orthodox, massively-controlling religion, rather than a handful of sun-loving pacifists who are pretty chill about what goes on a little ways down the mountain.

I guess you're right, we really don't know enough about either team just yet. Hopefully that will change soon~

Also, no problem, and ilu2 bby <3 <3

I'm bumping to put in my two cents on this.

It's been historically proven that two religions can grow up, side by side, for centuries, and then one suddenly, violently, subsumes the other. Just because the Solari now are a group of people dedicated to protection and leadership, doesn't mean they were in the past. It's quite plain to see that the Lunari, as a whole, were destroyed. Diana finding the Chosen's equipment could then either be called a coincidence or the calling of Lunari to bring a new champion to its fold.

I propose this, then: Formerly, the two religions were side by side, working together. Likely, the Solari were a more public and open face (leaders, paladins, guardians), while Lunari was more secretive--perhaps assassins working to kill those who tried to disrupt the worship of the Sun and Moon. When the Solari realized the power they held, they could have decided, to hell with the little guy--we can do this on our own.

And so, with greater numbers, the Solari brought down their force and their current Champion, and destroyed the Lunari, their Champion, and took over their duties.

Now, Diana finds the armor and sword, finds Lunari. She tries to bring this to the Elders of the Solari. They may be nice now, but they've doubtlessly received warnings from their forerunners--after all, history is written by the victors. They call Diana a heretic, and try having her killed. Diana responds in kind, and now, the whole thing is replaying itself in the League of Legends. Likely, Leona and Diana will eventually come to a head and fight, and one of two things will happen:

One will destroy the other, and the winner begins rebuilding their worship and damning the other.

Or, the two will forgive each other for their sins, and the Lunari and Solari can once again come into balance and try to actively help the other.

Thoughts?