This is ridiculous!!....I dodge because i don't want to play with a bunch of trolls....Now i am being forced to play with these trolls or get penalized....that is bull ****!!....

Either you include a vote kick option to kick out trolls or include a role select option or remove the LP penalty all together....till then season 3 can go suck on a lemon for all i care....

STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY ROLES THEY DON'T WANT TO PLAY!!!... let us enjoy the game the way we want....

LP Penalty working as intended, removed one more Toxic Dodger.

Thank you Riot.

Looks like the system is working very well.

Emm, OP may have not been very persuasive with his post, but, OP is right - repliers are wrong.

I just spectated (well, an "in-person" spectate.) my brother playing a ranked game today. In queue, everyone called roles, including my brother. The team leader called top, someone else asked for mid, my brother asked for support, and someone else asked for ADC. All seems well! Yay! Team leader banned Amu, Shen, and Malphite. Common, sensible bans. Team leader picks Teemo top. Perfectly fine! My brother picks Sona support. Player #3 picks Caitlyn ADC. Player #4 picks Katarina mid.--

"Wait, what? Kat?" says player #5. "I asked for mid already" says player #5.

It LOOKED like everyone called a spot. No one called JUNGLE. Player #4 was QUIET the entire time. Player #4 said NOTHING AT ALL when player #5 asked for mid in the very beginning!

"Please don't pick Kat, please just jungle, I'm not good at jungle, but I'm a really good mid" - player #4 said nothing, still.

"Kat just change please. This is ranked. Don't force him to jungle if he sucks at it." (my brother said something along these lines)

The time is up. Kat is locked in. Kat says, "sry pick order br0"

Well, all is not lost, because maybe they can still win, even if #5's worst role is jungler, they could still win.

However, Player #5 is so pissed off (honestly, rightly so) at #4. He's raging. How good is my bro's team's chances of winning, still? The team is already fighting amongst itself before the game has begun. Still, there is a chance. Even though #5 was put into a role he sucks at, AND even though he's blowing a gasket in chat, there's still a chance they can win. The timer is still going down. Player #5, still enraged, threatens to random if Katarina does not queue dodge. And, Katarina does not queue dodge. Player #5 randoms Ezreal. How good are the team's chances of winning, now? Oh, pretty slim.

(This is why I'm deathly afraid of ranked, btw.)

My brother assumes that one of them will dodge. Someone HAS to dodge. With all the fighting, and with the wrecked comp, there is no way someone will not dodge.

No one dodged. Big surprise. No one wants the PENALTY. The game starts. The Ezreal went top with Teemo. They still argued in-game. No one gave up completely, but top got destroyed by enemy top + jungler. They lost. Both Kat and Ez claimed the other team should report the other one during and after game.

Don't you dare try to argue that the one who dodges is toxic. The one who dodges is SACRIFICING HIS OWN TIME, and taking punishment he/she DOESN'T DESERVE to avoid terrible, unfair waste-of-time games like that round.

Having to wait time is already enough "PENALTY" for dodging. Remove the unjust point loss, I'm with the OP.

This kind of thing happens to me sometimes in blind pick too, but at least, if it happens to me, and I decide to dodge to solve the situation, at least in blind pick my only penalty is 5 minutes and nothing more.

Obviously, NO ONE WOULD BE DODGING IF THE TEAMS WERE DECENT. How to fix reduce the amount of players dodging? MAKE IT MORE ACCURATE. Don't tell me I have to stick with a team that has a sona going top.

I disagree with you completely. Well, nearly. The only thing I agree with you is that it might not be fun when you have someone in your team that doesn't listen to you. That's about it.

To me it seems like nearly everyone who complains about que penalties and would want the penalty to go away and have dodging be an acceptable practice doesn't see the whole picture.

Say, we take the "wall of text" persons story as an example. Lets say his brother did dodge the game. What happens now? He logs back on, waits 6 minutes to get on the que again and hopefully his team comp standards are met this time. Would that be it? Far from it.Thanks to him 9 other people now have to wait in the que longer to get to play. If his brother waited until the very last second in the champion selection screen as well as waiting for the last second for each ban and champion pick, that would be 35 seconds wasted for each ban, 40 seconds for each champion pick and then a 30 second waiting time after everyone has picked their champions.

There's 6 bans, so 6 * 30 seconds = 3 minutes
6 sets of champion picks, so 6 * 40 seconds = 4 minutes
Waiting time = 30 seconds
Total = 7 minutes 30 seconds

Now this is the maximum time spent in the champion selection screen only. This does no include que time at all. Depending on the day or the time you que, it could be anything from a couple seconds up to and over 5 minutes to wait for a new game and then possibly go through the seven and half minutes AGAIN. Add up all that and you get a nice total of around 20 minutes. That's as long as it would've taken to play the game and surrender if it ended up going horribly. And this isn't even counting how long it takes for everyone to load up their game. That's another 1 to 4 minute wait. So dodging, what you're actually doing is wasting the same amount of time for everyone that it would've taken to finish the game AND report the person who was being uncooperative.

Bottom line, the penalty wont be going away. Worst case scenario, if it wasn't there and someone who's had a bad day or a few and wants to act out it their rage, they could mass dodge games all day long and screw up games for a lot of people. Would that be a preferred option? Have trolls dodge your games so that you have to wait in que for half an hour before you can even play? You think about that.

LP is not ELO - You can dodge a game and your ELO (aka MMR) will not drop and you will still be matched against the same skill level of players. The higher your MMR, the more LP you get for a win. Dodging is actually beneficial to keeping your MMR up and thus your LP gain per win up.

What you're basically saying confirms the OP's point, that we need some way to deal with these people BEFORE we get into the matches, so that we don't have to waste any of this time. Give us the option to vote to kick, or let us check off the positions we're willing to play before we enter queue so that we don't have these conflicts of interest. Riot seems completely unwilling to improve more than the bare minimum on the pre-game side, which is why we're having these issues. How much has changed in matchmaking in the past two years? All I know is that we've now been given the option to decline a match. That's it. That's the only improvement it's gotten in two years. I think it needs to change.

JawniHawni, you missed part of the point, which is that #5 was now raging, because #4 did not even speak and give the team a chance to get things worked out. There are queues which simply are toxic, and you're forced to sit through them.

That being said, there are certainly toxic dodgers as well, who dodge and rage about everything. The question is how do you balance both of these factors?

I lost league points today because I had to dodge. I had an afk in queue. I also had to dodge yesterday because right as I got into Queue my daughter started puking. Pro system riot. Well done. The afk'r got off scott free and I got punished for helping my daughter.