In an attempt to find a niche for Karma, I realized that she is actually quite horrible as a support in the current meta (as you can probably guess by her popularity).

I've realized this is mostly because:
A) She has no hard CC, as opposed to most other supports
B) Her heal scales with how much health you have, which as a support and ADC, is NOTHING
C) She scales well with AP, making her a very effective endgame support. This is NOT good if she doesn't get gold (so, she's dependent on farm or kills).

Because no ADC has an easily usable stun, can only land kills with help of the support, and are usually supposed to steal as much gold as possible, I have come to the conclusion that Karma SUCKS WITH AD CARRIES. I don't think she fits with the current early-game meta, which makes sense, because she's avoided like the plague. As is changing the meta.

So I've thought about what WOULD work with Karma. My best guess? Bruisers. Preferably those with an extreme threat presence once they get into your face. Renekton or Darius come to mind, making the ultimate kill lane with ludicrous speed and sustain.

But what about the AD carry? I thought about this, and there aren't too many AD carries that can do well in a top lane against bruisers. I'd like to say Caitlyn (early game presence, range and traps for bush warding) or Varus (% health damage, harassment, slows and heal-prevention) would do well, but I don't have any experience doing this, and I'd like to hear your opinions on anything.

Harassment counters most bruisers, and bot-lane would (theoretically) rip the enemy lane to shreds, so I can really see this working well. Worst case scenario, ADC is in a losing lane, but it's balanced by a well fed Bruiser (very dangerous and hard to kill), and an endgame support (Post-Lane teamfights FTW).

TL;DR: How well do you think Karma + Bruiser bottom and certain ADC's top would work?
And please, only logical discussions. I'd like to hear more than "Downvote, Karma sucks, noob."

I don't think the problem is who she's supporting. I think the problem is that she doesn't bring as much to the table later in the game since she isn't building AP. I actually prefer the thought of taking her mid and playing her as more of a support-Mid like Janna, Lulu, Zilean, Lux, or Soraka. Karma actually does a lot of damage with her Q and her empowered E, and her shield is insane. The problem is that her W is pretty bad, and she doesn't have a 4th skill.

I actually think someone should try to build her as a tanky AP Bruiser, similar to tanky Kat or Elise. With her heal and her shield combined with her passive making both of them better as she gets lower, I think she'd be a nightmare to kill if she would just build some defenses. Give her a Sunfire, Warmogs, and then some Pentration and she could just sit in the middle of the enemy team and never die while dealing some pretty decent damage since her bases aren't actually that bad.

She would need to build some hardcore Mana items though, cause her costs are HARSH.

By "Support", I meant that in terms of a role, not item build. The most of a "support" build I'd put on her would probably be the two Gold items, and wards/sightstone. Other than that, I'd probably go with something similar to yours: Tanky with AP. Sunfire Cape + Abyssal Scepter sounds fun.

Regarding karma's W. It's not the best implemented ability, but if you put it on someone who can dive and out and use quick repositionings (such as xin or vi) to abuse the damage + slows + speed boosts, the effects it adds up (also, 210% ap ratio on only 3 abilities? Not to mention with a bit of cdr, they can be used quite a few times in a teamfight).

She actually works extremely well with the 'in your face' bruiser/tanks, ie xin, vi, jarvan etc, and having them to apply your debuffs/buffs to 3-5 other people, shielding (so they can do even MORE damage), as well as applying a fat nuke to the entire enemy team isn't really something to laugh at.

That said, she does require some form of co-ordination from her team, and willingness of said team to work around and with karma's strengths/weaknesses for her to be able to utilize her full potential. Unfortunately, soloQ teams generally lacks both of those aforementioned qualities needed. That, and the stigma the community has slapped on her is really what's preventing just about anyone from ever picking her up.

I appreciate the info, but I'm not looking for information strictly on Karma, but rather, how to make full use of her through other champions, without changing team coordination.

Often times, you don't have the luxury of teaching your team on how Karma works, and you need to get lucky if you want a decent team (sounds like normals, alright), so I like to completely ignore the "luck" factor altogether, and just look at the other scenarios.

Getting a heads up on what ADCs can handle themselves top would do very well, and as I mentioned before, if having a bruiser with her would be more effective than having an ADC. Why should I even bother putting Karma in a team when there's other options to work with. Those sort of things.

Karma is the best top in the game as far as lane presence goes. Shut down the enemy top, then team fight time tether the assassin that is diving in, mantra shield either whoever is in the middle of the enemy or the ADC if people have jumped him, mantra heal/damage AoE over everyone you can.

What you need to do with Karma though is think of her as a support that doesn't lane with the carry. You want a tank in lane with your carry, and an AP carry mid to use her well. You also need lots of CC. Really, for Karma to work you want an Alistar or Leona with your carry (Lots of CC, good tanks), a bruiser jungle, and AP carry with CC mid.

As far as building her, tanky AP is the way to go, as she scales very well off AP, and less well off pen (You want your skills to heal/shield for more, and AP does that). I find her core items to be Rylai's, Chalice, Deathcap and Zhoyna's, though you can go more or less tanky if you want.

I love me some Karma.

I've seen quite a few ADCs go top. Vayne, Graves, Varus, Corki, Trist, and Ezreal. Many of those can also go Mid. Cait especially is known to be a terror in mid lane. I expect Quinn to be really good top as well.

The thing is, what is going to be your justification for using Karma with a bruiser instead of someone else like Leona or Taric or Lulu?

Mostly due to Karma's scaling, as well as her %health heal. This makes her unlike most other supports (like, say, Sona); she can provide huge endgame benefits, as opposed to having a few minor utility spells and a decent ult (Sona, Nami) who are about as good endgame as they are through all of the other stages of the game.

In other words, Karma is the Vayne version of a support. Combined with a bruiser (making that bruiser a reverse-support, in a way. Gathering gold for the lane by making kills a possibility), she can gather the gold to push her through. This also allows your ADC to maximize on experience.

In this way, you are converting a support into a viable AP carry, maximizing your team slots. But like I said, this is all pretty theoretical. Don't have access to League at the moment, otherwise I'd totally try to find some people willing to test it with me.

Karmas kit is exactly made to support adc bruisers, not ranged champions.
Only way that would work might be with jayce adc bot.
I mean do you ever see fiora, ad master yi or AD sion go bot lane?
They can be it just doesnt work.Her kit is for something that doesnt work in current meta.

Put karma on anything else then summoners rift and she is 100% viable btw.

was in ranked and had 4 games with a karma jungler and he was actually good

i was impressed

course they lost every game

but it wasnt because of him