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League of WARMOGS

 
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Troy242621 ?? Senior Member
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02-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamDuddits View Post
You are missing the point... It's not Warmog's. People will usually get 2 Giants Belts before turning either into a Warmog's (Tanky) or will just get one Giant's belt and finish the Warmog's later (any one else). Giant's Belt gives a substantial portion of the HP that Warmog''s gives for a fraction of the cost and people generally build Warmog's for the flat HP and not the HP regen.
I don't know if I think the solution is simply, "Let's buff the other resistances to be equal to health stacks," because then it'll still have the same issue, you'll just have more variations in how people stack their defense. Health stacking simply lacks a counter. You can know for a fact they'll be doing it but there's still no significant counter-play to intentionally and actively fight against it. Hence why people do that instead of resistance stacking.

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stevemeisterjr ?? Junior Member
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02-22-2013

I honestly think there should be an item to counter health stack. There are counters for armor and magic resist, but now with no Madreds, there is nothing to stop any champ from health stacking and being unreasonably tanky. The current health % items like Liandry and Ruined King are insults because your damage just drops eventually to where the item is useless, which can be very deceiving. There needs to be an item that can deal with health that we can buy, because there will not always be an Elise or a Kog to fight against it. Make it expensive if u have to, just give us something please. I am tired of seeing 4.5k hp bruisers and tanks being virtually unkillable.

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jaybay123 ?? Member
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02-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz SammyD X View Post
Warmogs isnt the problem, Armor penetration and Magic penetration is the problem, its so easy to get them that it makes buying Armor and MR pointless, well its not completely pointless it does help a lot but not as much as it should, its not Warmogs thats causing this, Warmogs was actually nerfed believe it or not.

Small example, they remove FoN, increase MR cost, buff Magic Penetration and make it cheaper as well, give Warmogs a little more HP as well as lower the cost, make %HP items do high damage to high HP targets, see whats happened?

Warmogs is actually very easy to counter, there are items that deal %HP damage and its incredible how much they actually do to to champions with high HP.

I did a 1v1 with my friend and we were both Garen, he stacked Warmogs i think he had about 4 of them, basically 6k hp or more i dont remember exactly, when i didnt have Blade of the Ruined King the fight was taking so long, our hp was barely going down at all, but then the next time i went back i bought Blade of the Ruined King and guess what, i shredded his HP so fast and i was still at about 70%HP when i killed him, the fight was over very quickly.

Lots of people are ignoring the items that counter HP stacking and they just complain about Warmogs being OP, take a look at all the items in the store and you will see that Warmogs isnt as great as it seems.
The problem is that they neffed most damage/pre hp items that it cost way too much to properally counter a hp tank team

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Faptain Teemo ?? Senior Member
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02-22-2013

Riot doesn't exactly want people being melted - not even assassins getting off quick assassinations. I can understand that there's no counterplay to being targeted even when surrounded by teammates, cc'd and gibbed from 1 assassin/champ. They want us to play a more sustained battle type game.

-_-

-2
 
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Troy242621 ?? Senior Member
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02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faptain Teemo View Post
Riot doesn't exactly want people being melted - not even assassins getting off quick assassinations. I can understand that there's no counterplay to being targeted even when surrounded by teammates, cc'd and gibbed from 1 assassin/champ. They want us to play a more sustained battle type game.

-_-
Well, for starters, assassins don't fight sustained battles. They melt the carries, which is their job. Second, I am pretty sure health stacking lacking a sufficient counter was more of an oversight than an intentional imbalance favoring survival over power. Stacking health screws burst champions:/,...

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IamDuddits ?? Senior Member
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02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
Well, for starters, assassins don't fight sustained battles. They melt the carries, which is their job. Second, I am pretty sure health stacking lacking a sufficient counter was more of an oversight than an intentional imbalance favoring survival over power. Stacking health screws burst champions:/,...
Problem is that everyone in the game besides supports and ADCs are dependent on burst. Even Tanky DPS rely more on AoE burst/CC skills than on auto attacks. This basically means that everyone, including the ADC, needs to stack HP in order to not explode during a team fight.

There is a reason why burst damage didn't scale well in DotA. When everyone's HP pool is small, Burst is always better than Sustained damage (right clicks). But hey, people want to see big numbers instead of good balance.

They need to rescale burst damage ratios so that they don't scale well late game before they can start nerfing survivability into the ground. As it stands now, burst damage dominates at every phase of the game, which is why HP stacking has and always will be more favorable than building higher damage output or Armor/Resist. This also might make melee ADC builds viable because heroes like Yi wouldn't have to go mega tank in order to survive team fights.

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Zergem ?? Junior Member
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02-23-2013

There isint that many good counters to HP stacking blade of the ruined king sure...it does physical dmg get that warmogs on a tank or any1 with a sunfire or frozen heart and well itill do from 5% max hp to what 2%? with 4k+ hp?

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Troy242621 ?? Senior Member
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02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamDuddits View Post
Problem is that everyone in the game besides supports and ADCs are dependent on burst. Even Tanky DPS rely more on AoE burst/CC skills than on auto attacks. This basically means that everyone, including the ADC, needs to stack HP in order to not explode during a team fight.

There is a reason why burst damage didn't scale well in DotA. When everyone's HP pool is small, Burst is always better than Sustained damage (right clicks). But hey, people want to see big numbers instead of good balance.

They need to rescale burst damage ratios so that they don't scale well late game before they can start nerfing survivability into the ground. As it stands now, burst damage dominates at every phase of the game, which is why HP stacking has and always will be more favorable than building higher damage output or Armor/Resist. This also might make melee ADC builds viable because heroes like Yi wouldn't have to go mega tank in order to survive team fights.
Oh I don't want the game to be one-shotting left and right, but a burst champion ought to be able to dish out serious damage without out-farming them by a square mile. It's quite clear that defense is more helpful that offence because it has no counterplay atm. They should be, in my opinion, equally viable. That is where I personally stand, sorry if I was unclear. Just want to clarify a bit, I don't want an overbearing offence.

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The Pässion ?? Member
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02-25-2013

ok, this is what should happen, kill warmogs, turn it back into the item it used to be, i think it was 600 health and 25 health regen or something like that, then you get bonus hp and regen based on how many minions you killed after getting it capped at 1k, 60 regen around that. Bring back fon, nerf its magic resist by like 18 bringing it down to 60, because having fon and warmogs in the same item is just retarded, or you could keep warmogs as it is and bring back mandred bloodrazors because it destroys tanky hp stackers, blade of the ruined king just does not do the job as well because it does current health. if they do bring back MBR make it and blades passive unstackable, that way people can still build one or the other and get the best out of both.

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themaddscientist ?? Senior Member
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02-25-2013

About the only armor/magic resist item that I buy now is Aegis and the occassional Locket, and this is on Maokai, who builds as a true tank. I built Frozen Heart for a long time while the ad caster craze was running rampant, and because I was sitting on carries so often, but it just wasn't enough. I could out-last anyone with warmog's, not necessarily the case with Frozen Heart.

Also, am I the only one that thinks there needs to be a movement speed item that isn't surrounded in attack speed and ability power?

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