I have to disagree with you here. I don't think they need to take a stance on the issue but I do think they need to give us the tools to be able to deal with the queue situation. There's a reason people lolking each other and its because at the start of the match we have 0 information on any of our teammates other than the fact they say they want mid.

Both sides are fail because they are random. Call order because it is determined by computer speed, Internet lag, typing speed, whatever. Pick order because it's literally random, why should I get stuck playing a role I don't want because the system puts me 5th? Even if it was based on some factor like MMR why should I get stuck playing a role I don't want because your MMR is 5 higher? There isn't a good way of deciding like that regardless of taking a hard stance, that's why it's fail. People will be upset and frustrated at getting stuck playing something they aren't good at or don't like, this trolling and raging.


No it wouldn't. Again, you're not really understanding what I'm saying. Right now people frown on the unconventional, you already get raged at and reported. And again, a role preference does NOT in any way determine WHO you play. Limiting champion pool is a terrible idea and I do NOT condone it. It also doesn't have to be descriptive like ADC, instead it's "bot carry" "top" "mid" "jungle" "support". Those are generic terms that can mean a lot, you're doing double bruiser bot? FINE. like I said: without position rage you're more likely to be able to actually discuss it. It cannot be worse than today, how can you even argue that? Not to mention: duo queue bottom with a friend, weight duo queues more heavily toward their top preference. It's all in how you design the system. I'm a senior systems programmer, I do this for a living and it would be EASY.


How is doing that in a role queue any different than today? People expect certain things today, that isn't the issue at all. The issue is deciding who plays where and the anger and trolling that results directly from it.


Again, how is that any different than today? I call adc, I expect my support to not farm and to pick someone who can help me get fed and carry. This still isn't the issue we are talking about: deciding who goes where and the rage and trolling that comes from it. See a pattern here?

Same thing, this isn't the issue. THIS ALREADY HAPPENS TODAY AND ISN'T AFFECTED BY A ROLE PREFERENCE. You're talking about a completely different issue and I'm sick of people mixing them. You want to play something different? Fine. With a role queue you can spend champion selection talkin about it instead of watching people rage because they got forced to play somewhere they didn't want. You didn't say a single thing in all that text that actually has anything to do with a role preference queue being bad.

You can't have role stats without a role queue. I've talked about it before but I'm on my phone and doing the quoting in my previous post took forever. Watch for a topic from me later and I'll have a big in depth post on how I would design a queue system (which is part of what I do as a senior systems programmer).

Also, queue times at really high and really low ELO are already longer, they still won't significantly change. As I've already stated, you have people rank in order of their preference a minimum of three roles they are willing to play and match them up that way (telling them in champion select which role they got). I can tell you with 100% certainty that the times would not significantly change.

You missed the point of my post. I was just using the lolking thing as anecdotal evidence as what I'm suggesting doesn't necessarily have to be about stats (though it doesn't disclude them). All I'm trying to say is there are many other ways to go about improving pre-game without the use of role queue. In fact, that should be the very last thing they ever do.

How? In what way would making a preference queue where you rank the positions you want to play make this game more boring, strict or dead than now? There are already expectations in normal draft and ranked, are you seriously going to sit there and tell me the rage and trolling and immaturity is better on top of the expectations already in place?

I've said this half a dozen times already, and pay attention to the upper case words a WELL DESIGNED system would eliminate the biggest issue which is that people have preferences where they want to play. I have already explained why it doesn't stifle creativity or choice, it doesn't do anything to the champion meta that isn't already done today. Not a single thing.

No matter what solution you propose any system where someone gets "stuck" playing a role they don't want you will have rage, trolls, feeders and toxic attitudes. Period. The only solution is to let people tell you want they want to play and match them accordingly. You can debate with me HOW to do it, there are a TON of options, but you have no real basis to stand on against the idea because the current system is already tremendously and fundamentally flawed.

Also, besides Riot taking a stance on either flawed deciding point (call or pick order) what options are there for making it better? Without asking people prior to queue what they want to play, how do you tell people they can't play what they want to? Give me even a single fair way to decide that I should have to play jungle when I am bad at it AND don't like it.

Edit: forgot to mention, your own post undermines your opinion. You want some way to determine how good people are at a role and use that as the deciding factor? How does that work exactly? Lolking can't tell where you played a champion, how does that not limit people to the meta? What about people who are trying to get better at a role? Sorry, you're not skilled enough to play that role so you don't get to practice it?

You want a role preference and you don't even know it. Select at least three roles in order of preference: top > mid > support, press queue. Queue has popped, champion screen loads (you're mid). Hey guys, I'm going to play <insert non-traditional champ> mid, been practicing this lately and I works pretty well, although if they take a bad matchup I'll play traditional.

Everyone: ok, cool. We can make that work because we all queued for other roles and now we aren't bickering needlessly. If it doesn't work we can land swap, my top champ works pretty well mid...

how did this go from a tribunal sucks thread to a pick order/call order thread? lol

You talk as if role queue will magically fix everything, and its not going to. In fact, you're just going to create a whole new range of problems that will be just as bad. But since you said you'll have a huge post about this sometime I'll wait until then to start debating you on everything.

No, I don't think a role preference queue will fix everything. In fact I've pretty clearly said as much. There are several problems in the game right now:

1) champion selection drama related to positions
2) trolls and toxic players/attitudes
3) meta expectations
4) MMR/ELO matchmaking expectations

Each of these things is cause by different things, each of them have different solutions. The only thing a role preference queue will fix is the first. Granted, a lot of the trolls and toxic attitudes are caused by position selection and those would be cut down, but trolls and bad attitudes isn't the same.

To cut down on real trolls and bad attitudes you need a non free-to-play model. I'm personally for pay to play just because then getting banned is an actual punishment, but I don't feel really strongly either way. I've very rarely in WoW or LoL encountered a truly toxic player, 95% of what I've seen in LoL came from someone being "forced" to play somewhere they don't want.

As for the "meta" and expectations, there is no fix. Right now if Riot posted and said: pick order is the rule and going against it is now bannable. How does that fix it? It doesn't, if I lock Soraka solo top I'm either a troll or clueless, how you determine where you play has literally nothing to do with the viability. That's why most arguments against a queue fail utterly: if I queue for it, call it or get first pick my choice is STILL my choice and all you're changing is the fight over it. A role queue means no one gets "forced" to play what they don't want. I can't be any more clear, it's a fact.

I will gladly debate HOW to implement a preference system, there are a lot of options and opinions. I am tired of people with no good argument at all saying its a bad idea because of unrelated issues.