I'll break it down into a few different things, so we don't get bogged down with all-caps rage or unpunctuated garbage.

- First, let's talk about how she compares to other resourceless champions. Garen, Renekton, Riven, etc. How her kit compares to them, how she differs, and wether or not her kit gives any advantage over any other.

- Second, let's talk about her base stats. Too high, too low?

- Third, very simply put.. would she need a change. If so.. how?


And so, first of all.. I tried comparing her to AD casters but that's sort of silly. She's AD-based, she has abilities that are AD based.. but since she only has one ability that's directly affected by her AD and isn't an autoattack enhancer, not a true AD Caster. Then I tried comparing her to Garen, who has had a few tweaks recently.. and the only thing that comes to mind is "Man.. this guy has a slow shed, speed boost and silence all in one. That's an amazing skill."

Then I tried comparing her to Riven and Renekton.. kind of a fail there, since they're completely different.. but Renek has one huge thing in his ult. The health boost is tremendous, especially compared to how Shyv only gains 10/15/20 extra Armour/MR for the duration of her ult (defense-wise).

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I haven't actually looked into base stats and I'm not entirely sure how they scale on others, so I'll leave that to another person to look through should they want to.

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As for her kit.. does it need a change? I feel like it does, even though it shouldn't be a big one. A burst effect on her E, for example, or added scaling on her W. Hell, making her W deal magic damage would allow her to be.. well, broken with a Cleaver.


Any thoughts?

She needs hybrid ratios, that's all. She's pretty much fine the way she is, just a little underwhelming due to no CC and being unable to secure kills except against weak/stupid players.

the jungle change is really what boned her in terms of being an awesome dragon that flies out of jungles and destroys people. She can't clear as well as she used to, she sustains WAY too much damage from the large creeps now (early on) and overall jungle times have increased throughout the game, making it harder for her to get a lot of that strength she gets from natural level growth.

She's probably more viable as a top lane champion now, but she has plenty of counterpicks in that lane that are popular right now (rumble, jax, kayle to name a few) and while her late game is just as strong as it used to be (maybe stronger, with the re-release of Black Cleaver and other awesome AD items) she just has a really rough time getting there now.

**post edit**


- in terms of how she compares to other resourceless champions... Well, honestly it's strange because her early - mid game isn't where she shines, (which were most manaless champions do) but having no mana gives her a lot of control over farm in lane and in jungle. I'd say her kits probably on the weaker side early game but becomes much stronger than any other manaless champion late game.

- I'm wholely fine with her base stats. Again, the problem is that she doesn't have a reliable way to gain experience and gold right now. I'm not sure how exactly you'd fix the problem, other than to make Wriggles a gp5 item.

- If I were going to change something specific about Shyv, well... I'm not exactly sure what'd it be. She's an interesting champion, one that's been balanced pretty carefully to Season 2 standards. I dunno, I guess I'd try to make her shine a little more during her mid game to reward players for getting her there in a timely manner. Faster rage gain or shorter cooldowns during dragon form.

I believe Shyvana is good overall, but i do agree that her ult isn't very impressive. I think they should add a flat movespeed buff (30/40/50) and give her a massive HP regen boost (15/20/25 per 1 second) to trigger more of a "OH $%#@" from enemies instead of an automatic click in their minds to just start running off to safety or easily kiting her.

Faster rage regain, CDR during dragon form, or an extra offensive thing in dragon form (more AD comes to mind but let's not copy Riven or Renek/Nasus with their health pools). Another thing that comes to mind would be giving her E a passive that reduces damage from neutral monsters (like Evelynn's old passive).

Any more thoughts? Maybe a Rioter will give this thread a gander if we get a strong discussion going.

shyv has AoE magic damage and AoE physical damge that can crit AND apply on-hit effects
an ability who's cooldown is reduced by autoattacking I might add.

She also has a huge AoE magic damage effect in dragon form and a scary*** gapcloser that can get over wraith wall

She can also shred armor by I think 15% with no items.

Shyv is in fact a caster, but she is a hybrid caster capable of massive debuffs to support the team. (she's demacian)

All true, but the 15% armour shred (let's ignore the passive about this since it's kind of insignificant) completely pales it comparison to, say.. J4's armour shred. And his can always hit more than one target, not just during his ult.

The problem with her isn't that she's weak; quite the contrary, she's very strong. The problem lies in how she's overshadowed by.. well, any other bruiser or caster. They all have something she lacks; all she gets is resistances for free (like J4, once more, except he gets a touch more armour and it's, again, not on his ult) and a kit that radically changes her skills.

Her dragon-form skills? Stronk. Scurreh. Gotta give her that.

somewhere in the world theres somebody with a bigger **** than you.
somewhere in the world theres somebody who types faster than you.
somewhere in the world theres a 9 tailed fox who has a bigger cult following than you.
somewhere in the world there's somebody whos better at something else you do.

For every one thing you have there is probably someone else who has it better, but what are the odds that there is someone exactly like you but better in every way?

J4s armor shred does do more and is always AoE
but J4 is not manaless
J4 has no speed buff
J4 has only 3 damage abilities and becomes trapped in an encloser when he uses his ult
shyv can apply onhit with AoE abilities, J4 cannot
Shyv can shred armor in a cone rather than a linear shot
Shyv needs only one ability to close the gap, J4 needs 2.
Shyv can jungle faster
Shyv can apply AoE magic over I much larger area (W>R)
and lastly shyv has better cooldowns

Every bruiser fighter has something she lacks. Just like every other bruiser fighter lacks something every other bruiser fighter lacks

Good points, but her Q does not synergize with her E at all. Her ult is interruptable mid flight, which is a huge pain. If you level up her Q, disregard her E for anything other than the armor shred. If you level up her E, disregard her Q for anything except procing the E. It's a stupid cycle that leads Shyvana to need hybrid ratios to make good use of either.

Her W is the only thing that's really epic about her. If her E and W had some hybrid ratios, she's be amazing.

Last time I played her I completely disregarded damage optimization and focused completely on shred and hp burn.

We lost the game due to a trolling noob darius, a xin with 0 map awareness, a fizz who had some issues, and I forget dravens issue (was on a friends account so its not suprizing) but
OMFG
OMFG
OMFG
OMFG
OMFG
OMFG

the teamfights! HOLY ****!

When I could actually get my team to let me initiate it was so damn beastly. I would be beaten to an inch of my life every time but by then my job was done and I could walk away leaving a trail of Liandry proccing fire behind. I don't think we lost a single fight I initiated for.