Hey guys, long time no posts, sorry for this but I had a lot of stuff to do for university. Nethertheless I still kept my eye on league and the big transitions it went through recently, while also playing one or two games myself. Xypherous really held his word and gave us a lot goodies for Ad-Casters, on top of it the glorious Black Cleaver which finally allows Renekton to have an item that was basically made for him.
Yet, I am still interested by you what you think of the current state of Renekton! His win rate in pubs seems to be okay, and I really like how you can now choose between the new items instead of building Bloodthirster every single game. The game is in a constant shift right now, and people already found new nichès for other ad-casters, mainly mid. Renekton can't really compete there, as he is no assassin and does have easy poke, also he does not benefit from the new starting items that much. Yet he is probably still a fine pick at top where he might be able to dominate even better now because of the lower jungle-pressure and the existant lategame-transition, and maybe he could fin a way into the jungle with the new jungle items.
What are your opinions on him, what do you think he still needs if he does anything, or how do you see him in competitive games placing?
Just tell them here, I'm eager to find out what the Renekton lovers think of him now!
Xypherous again talks about the current problems with toplanes. One interesting quote would be, that in the current toplane you HAVE to be overpowered to be fully viable. This, I think, describes Renektons current situation pretty well: Balanced, but not overpowered enough to be fully viable.
From reading further I doubt greatly that Renekton will get any help at all, or that the new ad-caster item will be released any time soon. They plan big things with toplane, I would suspect that they shift around gold prices or some items like dorans-blade, maybe make some new cheap items that help you out in lane, change the masteries a bit and pretty sure nerf the current op (speak: fully viable) toplaners together with probably minion damage changes.
And as we all know Riot, this will need quite some time before it happens, let's just hope they don't ruin it entirely.
Xypherous talked about the idea of testing out anti-kite items for melee champions after season 2 ends. Sounds cool, but I doubt it will help Renekton any more than it will help udyr or lee-sin or Garen. Here's the link.
Also intersting what reasons Morello and Xypherous say they had for the Garen rework/buff, because you could simply exchange every single instance of Garen in them with Renekton and you would get our crocs current situation.
10.08.2012 Update #2
Oh yeah, this day gets even better.
One of Renektons old rivals, Garen, received in the PBE what Renekton was denied since his birth: lategame buffs
Garen shared many things with Renekton, they both had exceptionally strong early game, good sustain, and both had the probably WORST lategame of all champs to date.
And both got ignored for more than 2 years because they were no troublemakers in Riots game design philosophy.
Our fellow demacian just got his earlygame nerf and lategame buff, making him viable again it seems.
And what is with us crocodiles?
It might be true that we did not have such an insane earlygame than Garen, and a slightly better lategame, but that doesn't change the fact that Renekton was after him the worst lategame-scaling hero and monotone scaling champion in the whole frikking game.
And now, we are alone, crying crocodile tears as we devour our own limbs.
Feeling betrayed and left behind.
Let's at least hope that brother garen finds his place now.
An interesting read on Xypherous opinion about the balancing of ad-caster items.
Interestingly enough, he thinks there are only two ways to help ad-casters without buffing other offtanks atm, the first would be just directly buffing all ad-casters, while the second would be to add a new ruleset for armor-penetration. Releasing just an ad-caster item with the stats ad-casters need most would also buff all other competing top-laners like Lee-sin and Udyr. No ****?
I don't know if I should be happy, that Riot seems to put some thought into ad-casters, or sad, because it tells us that they have done basically NOTHING at all in that area since Renektons release. I mean, they say they are working on an ad-caster item since some time, and then they come up with stuff which every ad-caster player could tell them already since a year. Impressive Riot, if you keep up with that speed, you will soon tell us that the new tenacity items aren't that often bought...in some years.
Also as I suspected in the last update, we can completely forget ad-casters and especially Renekton until the season 2 finals are over, here is the regarding Xypherous post.
I doubt that we will see ANYTHING AT ALL done for ad-casters before 2013, so you should probably just drop all your favourite ad-casters for some time, because the rivaling tanky-fighters won't get any weaker at all because they are fotm and therefore ad-casters will stay unviable in this game, except if they are as ridiculous as release darius.
I am purely suspecting here, but I don't think that the Ad-caster item will come out before the season 2 finals ends.
Why? Because of that quote from Xypherous regarding Ad-carry item variety:
"Phantom Dancer would have to be fundamentally reworked to not be prime utility x prime damage - and that's a change I don't see us doing lightly / quickly when season 2 finals are this close." ~Xypherous
For sure, ad-caster item is not the same as an ad-carry item, but I would believe that a fresh viable Ad-caster item could create some unwanted storm in the unbreakable ad-carry itemisation, something that Riot seems to avoid at all cost, at least before the season 2 finals ends.
So, speculating here, we have to wait for a new ad-caster item until Season 3 starts.
Stay strong, my trusty crocodile fellows, stay strong...
Final patchnotes are here, the Slice&Dice buff STAYS!
Still no ad-caster item though
I guess they wait to release it together with the stealth remake, the karma remake and the soraka graphical update, just because it will be sooo awesome.
The unbelievable happened! Renekton appears in the PBE-Patchnotes, and this time not because of a new skin or a bugfix!
Slice and Dice: Dice - 50 Fury Bonus Armor Reduction increased to 15/20/25/30/35% from, 15/17.5/20/22.5/25%.
Riot seems to really look at our criticism, finally, and even if it doesn't adress all of his problems, it still addresses a pretty big one of them: The uselessness of wasting Fury on E.
35% is a pretty decent value, if you account for it that it is an aoe-armor decrease, basically the only one in the whole game if I'm not mistaken here. This will definitely boost Renektons lategame power a bit, especially his teamfight power. You can now actually decide if you want to use your Fury for Q to deal good damage and gain health back, for W to stun a target for a longer time, or for E to help out your whole team and increase your overall damage. You could for sure do this before this buff as well, but there it was just not worth wasting your hard gained fury for a poor 25% armor reduction compared to what Q and W brings. For me, this is the long overdue real buff that E should have gotten, the wounds of Riots poor E-buff joke which really was only a bugfix are sealed with this. Together with the new ad-caster item (y Riot, why you take so long?) we might see a much better lategame viability of Renekton, depending on how the item will look in the end.
BUT don't forget that this is only a PBE buff! Which means that this is possible to change, PBE is the test environment, and if Riot decides that this buff does too much, the final patch won't include it!
I would love to hear from people on PBE how Renektons E works out lategame with the buff, if they are able to "feel" a difference with it!
Good News and Bad News. Okay, not really good news. Just news and bad news.
Renekton Bot asked out Morello again about his state, and Morello said that Classick is the guy to talk to in this concern. So we know now who we directly have to confrontate with Renektons Problems. And as you guesses, this weren't the bad news.
Morello also said that (he thinks) the live(-balance)-team is currently happy with Renekton.
Which means basically no love for Renekton. No quality of life improvements. No new passive. No better lategame or better fury scaling.
Because we all know that if a character is not ridiculously overpowered or underpowered in any terms, he doesn't receive any help at all from Riot. Troublemakes before Lone-wolves.
I'm sorry to say this, but I see black for ANY help for Renekton, all we can hope for is that Riot actually not screws up the new ad-caster item, and that it will finally be a worthwhile lategame item for Renekton. The curse it is cast, the wheel it is turned....
Anyway, thank you all dear Renebros for supporting this, I might still update this thing here for news about Renekton or other ad-caster related news, we will see.
Interesting small infos about the ad-caster item leaked out of the Riot headquarters.
"A focus on offensive stats that are specific to AD Casters, and trying to make a compelling unique passive that narrowly appeals to this subset. No details now since they're rapidly changing." ~Morello
Also very interesting, Morello stated that Garen is on the list of possible buff receivers.
"We actually agree - we're talking about ways to improve Garen " ~Morello
Garen does have the same problem as Renekton, his nonexistant lategame where his usefulness drops so hard that it is impossible to be of any big impact like other common fotm bruisers. This could make us hope that Renekton gets a bit lategame-help too, after all why should Garen get something which he is denied? Though Garen is not played in any tournaments at all, and because Morello seems to look mainly on Tournament usage to justify buffs and nerfs, instead of actually creating an own opinion with testing it by Riot members, getting hopes high because of just this is dangerous to get destroyed.
Patchnotes are here. There is nothing big to mention in it, no changes in Renektons mechanics and also still no ad-caster item.
But interestingly enough, Renekton got a small rework to a graphical feature, or rather a bugfix: "Cull the Meek's fury-enhanced swipe trail is now properly red".
I know, it is nothing that changes his current status at all, but it shows that someone somewhere actually took a look at Renekton, and fixed a problem.
Since when was Renekton not in the patchnotes, besides getting a new skin? At least it lets us hope that Riot has started to put an eye on him to get a closer look, which is a small start, but it's a good start.
We got a RED POST from Morello himself! Yay!
"I'm short on time right now, and I know there's some "give Renekton some love" threads, but he gets used a reasonable amount in tourney and high-elo play. Other than new build options (which is fun for any character), I don't see what we need to do here." ~Morello
Looks like Riot wants to wait for new Ad-caster item, we have to see how it will work out for our beloved Crocodile.
Another community member asked out Morello indirectly about Renekton buffs.
Needless to say, Morello once again skips a real answer and curved around it, though with close reading one could see that Morello definitely does have way more fear of buffing Renekton than Olaf. He said people would need more laxative, because he assumes that bricks will be shat after a buff (say people will go mad at Riot and complain about too big buffs) again, and that this time the bricks would be way bigger than the bricks Olaf brought us.
While it is nothing special and the usual Riot way to talk around things without making a clear statement, it shows us that Morello is still aware of Renektons current state, and that he thought about helping out Renekton of his miserable place.
Go on Morello, we will bring the laxative!
A first sneak peak of the new Renekton skin was spotted!
Also a first video of how his model looks ingame appeared!
Looks like it will go the same direction as the Volibear skin.
So we received the patchnotes today. Sadly it doesn't seem that Renekton will get any help this patch.
But that doesn't mean we should give up yet fellow Renebro's! Riot might be working on a fury rework, we should never forget what Morello mentioned some weeks ago!
Such things can need a lot of work, and we know that Renekton is not on top of Riot's list, but at least we know he is there, and Riot didn't completely forget about him.
So let us keep this thread bumped in a friendly manner, show our appreciation to our favourite reptile and let us keep the ideas flowing!
We got also a new bruiser item this patch, which could fit Renekton quite well, be sure to try it out and tell your experiences with it.
We received an interesting information by Adjudicator Wriggle!
Appearently, Renekton will receive a new skin somewhere in the future!
"Here's a little teaser for you crocophiles: Renekton will be getting a new skin soon ("soon"?) called Rune Wars Renekton. Not this patch. Further details? Well.. that's not for me to divulge.
Keep it under your hats" ~Wriggle
That at least soothes our pain a bit for the missing ad-caster item and the missing Buffs, thank you a lot Wriggle, you`ve done a great deed to your reptillian bros
I'm pissed as hell.
Why you ask? Because we just found out that the new "ad-caster item" is no ad-caster item, it is a bruiser item.
Awesome, we wait for I don't know, more than 1 and a half year that Riot finally gives us a decent ad-caster item with the most important stat for every ad-caster, COOLDOWN REDUCTION, and what does Riot, they make another bruiser item with a stupid passive.
Ye, I forgot, it's not like we don't have already thousands and dozens of bruiser items, let's just put another one in the fray!
Edit: It looks like Morello clarified his mistake. So we get NO ad-caster item this patch, but it seems that one is in the making.
Let's hope they speed that a little up and that they don't forget the cdr, otherwise...
Oh, and so far we heard nothing of Renekton help, we can only hope the full patch notes include something.
Sincerely, a pissed Croc.
We finally get a new Ad-Caster item this patch (with a bit luck)!
With a bit luck we could also get some Renekton help, c'mon Morello, don't you let us down!
We just reached 250 upvotes! Thanks a lot dear Renebro`s! But we still have a long way to go, so let's keep the flood of awesome ideas and cry for help coming!
Patch notes are here. Still no help for Renekton
Sadly we heard nothing else from Morello so far, tomorrow will be the patch, let's hope we can see something helpful in the patchnotes.
Also, join the current Renekton discussion on reddit!
Also added two Renekton gaming cards.
Morello posted some news about Renekton's current state! Looks like they finally do something with his problems!
Renekton could use some help - though I may want to go slightly crazier and give him bigger moments based on Fury. I think it's a little "flat" right no, so we could definitely do some things here. ~Morello
Here is the link (many thx to Minutehourday for pointing that out!)
I have just added 3(!) new Renekton threads, each of them created in the last 2 days!
This shows clearly, the Renekton players come together, their rage grows stronger with every single new fantastic idea, and soon we will be heard by Riot (hopefully)!
Beware, the croc isn't extinct yet! We won't give up that easy! RIOT, we come at you! (or you better come at us)
And as long as you don't revive the legendary Crocodile Hunter there is NOTHING that can stop us! So this is your chance, show you appreciation for Renekton players around the world!
Even a crocodile can cry!
(only when they devour their prey though )
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What this thread is about:
The Champion Discussion area is currently flooded with people demanding a buff for Renekton, mainly for his passive.
Why the hell I am posting this here? Simple, cause the champion discussion area is a part of this forum, where no sane Riot member seems to put one foot into, unless there is a thread about bears with armors or a thread with 1 million replies.
I post this here cause I still have a slight hope that Riot even reads the general area, and that I can bring up the attention of one of them to the following threads:
Buff Renekton by WhaleWars 4 Life
Tick Tock Buff the Croc by KayChasm
Renekton - his problems and why his passive needs a MINOR change by solidfake
Renekton - a MINOR change by NA1
Renekton needs something by Captain Croc
Time to Tweak Renekton by Zynro
Renekton: Three Quality of Life Changes by DarlingNiki
Issues/Fixes for Renekton by cavecricket48
Renekton's Passive - Ideas by Fracture Eon
Renekton: Butchery in the Modern Age (U remade, bro?) by Berk Berkly
Renekton needs you! by TheLokis
Hi I am Renekton by Lizardons
Renekton's Passive, Buff needed by Drakinite
Late Game Renekton Buff Ideas by RadioAaron
Passive Idea - Renekton Reign of Anger by Geocorporation
Renektons Cooldowns by zankuro14
@Morello Possible Renekton Changes by RadioAaron
Nasus and Renek Ults by Luckybed
This is NO thread to discuss if he needs a buff/new passive or not, I post this here ONLY to show that Renekton players demand some love for him by Riot. (that's how I justify myself to post here)
All of the above threads got opened in the last time, ranging from today to before 2 months, and some of them got great ideas and appreciation from Renekton players around the net.
If you love Renekton and agree with anything in the called threads, post your opinion!
And bump this thread, so people don't forget to about it!
(It's **** hard already to get attention when talking about an underplayed champion)
And RIOT, please watch them too, show your appreciation for your test lab croc for the fury system, give him the same fury mechanic styles as tryndamere or shyvana, which means make his fury regeneration actually useful in lategame!
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my own motivation & opinion why Renekton needs a passive and therefore an useful lategame:
Just saying this straight forward, this is solely my opinion, not everyone would agree to it I am certain.
The problem I have with Renekton is, that you have to end the game early with him.
If you go into lategame with him, you are nearly lost, and pushing your character to end the game as early as possible is in my opinion no fun.
I play Renekton now since his release, and every game I play with him, I know I HAVE to win my lane, otherwise I will be useless.
And this is no fun for me, I want long games, I want teamfight based games, I hate games that are solely won by one lane (or the jungle).
And this is why I would like to see Renekton have even any scale into lategame, which would be easily achieved by giving him a real passive that scales with the time of the game.
It would, and should not, change any of his early game, it should only give Renekton players the motivation to keep playing the game once it goes into late game, and not to have
to force every single game being an early win.
edit*: added a new thread
edit**: added my own motivation for mentioning Renekton's lategame
edit***: added a new cool alligator artwork I found randomly on the net
edit****: added a great new thread by Zynro
editV: added a new chibi pic and a mtg pic
editV*: added a fantastic new thread by DarlingNiki
editV**: added 3 (!) new fantastic threads, each with seperate interesting suggestions!
editV***: Amazing News! Morello said that they will take a further look onto our favourite croc! Check it out at the top of the thread!
editIX: Wow, 250 upvotes! Let's keep this bumping!
editX: added a new thread by TheLokis
editXI: added a pic to show my anger about the new "ad-caster" item
editXII: added a new amazing thread by Lizardons!
editXIII: whew, we crossed the 300 upvotes mark, let's keep going!
editXIV: added a new thread by Drakinite!
editXV: new pic added by Jouste!
editXVI: added a new thread by RadioAaron
editXVII: added a new pic by lanmower!
editXVIII: added a new thread by Geocorporation!
editIXX: added a new thread by zankuro14!
editXX: added a new thread by RadioAaron!
editXXI: added a new thread by Luckybed!
editXXII: new pic by shampu
[chibi-pic by gummy]
[alligator artwork by mearu]
[galactic-chibi-pic by crissaegrimdust]
[yellow Renekton MTG card by phont]
[Renekton gamecard by solidfake]
[ad-caster item meme by solidfake]
[Renekton artwork by jouste]
[Bloodfury-chibi Renekton by lanmower]
[PowerCreep Renekton by Shampu]