Originally Posted by AnAnarchist
I just spent some time playing HoN which as most of you already know is basically DotA with improved graphics.
LoL was designed to be a step up from DotA in many respects but that doesn't mean its strictly a better game.
After playing HoN over the last few days there are some things I'm definitely missing in LoL.
I'll start with the most controversial one. Denying from a lore or common sense standpoint is pretty stupid I agree but it just adds so much activity to the game its crazy. LoL is much more ability spammy at the start which you'd think would mean it was the more active of the two games... its close but I still feel like last hitting + denying + limited ability usage is more active than LoLs last hitting + spammy ability usage. If not more active than more varied perhaps. Ultimately denying is an engrossing game mechanic that I miss in LoL.
Pets / Summoned units
A lot of players in this genre dismiss controllable units as a RTS thing. The reason I think I miss pets / summoned units so much is the deep variety it adds to champions. Playing a Hero in HoN with either controllable or even uncontrollable summons feels almost like a whole different game. Its like the completely different game you get when you play Hiemer. The variety champs like these bring is just massive and its something I miss in LoL.
Other than those two points I wouldn't say there is really anything I miss terribly from DotA / HoN. However there are a few things LoL added which I wish they hadn't...
I great leap into experimental territory. Essentially a list of abilities that any champion can take into the game with them. A very nice concept no doubt and not terrible in practice either but after playing HoN I just feel like they add balance problems and perhaps more importantly a great deal of staleness to the game.
As I said summoner spells are essentially a sixth and seventh ability for each champ (counting passives). The problem is these are abilities you see dozens of times in every match you ever play. Its kinda like every champ you see is 2/7ths the same as everyone else. It just gets really boring to see most gankers get kills not because of their unique abilities but because of exhaust / ignite. Or tanks survive not because of their unique abilities but because of ghost / cleanse. That gets old real fast.
I think summoner spells would work better if they were less combat related and more utility based. They could work as optional replacements to several of the current in game must buy type items or even full fledged mechanics. B'ing should be a summoner spell imo. I actually think DotA encouraged better play by forcing players to be less reckless without a tele back to base. Shoping from the field should be a summoner spell. A HoT similar to hp pots should be a summoner spell, it shouldn't scale past early game usefulness either. Revive and fortify could stay. The rest of the current summoner spells just make each game too similar regardless of champions chosen.
Playing HoN again just reinforced in my mind how much I dislike brush. There are several problems with brush as I see it.
The first is that brush greatly benefits ranged champions over the melee variety. Ranged get mush greater utility from brush, move out auto attack harass > move back in. Melee gain almost nothing from brush.
The second is that brush just adds more balance issues. Is fiddle OP? Well in lane no probably not but if the team fight takes place in the jungle I'd argue fiddlesticks is pretty horribly OP.
The third reason I don't like brush is perhaps a bit more trivial but I simply don't see the point in it. The game already has mountains to obscure LoS and FoW to boot.
Perhaps the most ****ing point about brush is that DotA's intricate forest paths just felt better / more enjoyable than brush.
With all that said LoL is currently imo doubtlessly a better game than HoN. Why? Partly because of HoN failings and partly LoL successes.
The main thing holding HoN back atm is the shop system which is simply trash. Other than that it has MM issues and the graphics though good are confusing at times.
LoL has a great shop system, a nice runes system and while much QQ'd about a good MM system.
The thing I kinda worry about is the months ahead. If Hon can fix their shop most of their problems will largely be solved. LoL however is pretty knee deep in its brush and summoner spell experiments.
Season 1 will bring most of the drafting / ranking elements that HoN currently has so I feel they are irrlevant to compare against one another.
I have no doubt LoL will continue to do well largely because I believe the free game paid content model is superior to HoNs pay to buy model.
I don't beleive any future Mobas will replicate LoL's brush system. The summoner spell system may be a something that other Mobas use in a modified way.
i played DotA a lot (since the beginning of DotA Allstars) and i liked denying, but it made rnged champs very strong early while you had to rely on your abilities as a melee. in LOL you can play much more freely with a melee champ.
In Dota casters are stong early while strength and agi gets stronger at the end.
in lol casters still have the advantage of range and a large manapool but you can farm early as melee and still push them back, while a caster doesnt get weaker every min of the game.
Thats a problem in DotA and HoN.
Pet's summoning: You dont have much pets in DotA and HoN. it looks like more cause you have around 100 heroes. The same with invis. I like my tibbers and my Towers, only Malzahars pet is anoying.
Summoner spells: Should all get a smaller effect. But i think due to their high CD and already small or short effect they are nearly fine. Taking that spells is not like giving all champs the same abilities (and even so they still have more abilities than in DotA and HoN) but giving them some special items with effect.
Blink Dagger, Scroll of TP, Wards, Helm of Dominator (Smite), ...
you have effects that normaly some items have.
It's nice to et the player make that desicion before the game to bring in some more planing.
Brush: i like the FOW system of DotA that gives a good player the power to kill the enemys even with only 5% hp left. It gives you a lot of skill based game play, but even so it brings in a lot of luck ,too. Brushes are really good even as a melee. fiddle jumps out over walls or other things not only a brush and a brush is easily controlled.
Ilike both systems and cant say what is better.
I agree with you about LOLs future and HoN. But i think that the wordst thing in HoN is the graphical issue that makes it really bad for competitive game play and they cant fix that easy and fast. HoN is a nice copy of DotA but thats all. the ideas behind it are nice but badly implemented. I think that DotA and IceFrog will implement some of these features too if he makes a standalone DotA or a SC II DotA together with Valve.
LOL and DotA is the same as Sup Com and Sup Com 2.
They are games of the same style but in detail they both have different content. But both are IMBA games and everybod has his own opinion which one is better.