Clarification of the Fundamental Issue
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Originally Posted by Grailums
Watch out, Gilitia Zero is going to downvote you!
I have to wonder if the OP has ever ran into an Annie, or a Leblanc, or a beefed up Gangplank. Gangplank with Parrrrrrleeey > Graves. |
Numbers
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With very standard runes, masteries, and a typical 12,000G Build: LeBlanc single target Q + R damage with 500 AP: 1522 (12380G Deathcap, Rod of Ages, Morello's Tome, Void Staff, Boots) Graves single target Q + R damage with 200 bonus AD: 1380 (12885G Infinity Edge, Last Whisper, Bloodthirster. Phantom Dancer, Boots) Graves is a Ranged AD carry, the role with the highest auto-attack damage. Using two of his abilities yields 140 less damage than a burst mage that cannot auto-attack. This is disregarding the additional splash damage from his ultimate. And people in this thread are trying to justify that I guess. But let's not forget that his ultimate can deal 3500+ total AoE damage. Instant cast. That's before he right clicks anyone. Other ranged carries do not have this kind of late-game ability damage for a reason (it's broken), hence their AP ratios. |
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Graves doesn't get wrecked when he gets close to 100-0 burst people with Q+R. You play him like an opportunist, almost the way melee champions go in. Stack up your passive resistances with ranged shots, then when your Amumu/Galio/Alistar/Wukong/anything with a good initiate goes in, you walk in and get your free pick of who to shoot in the face, most likely ending their lives. Then you dash out and continue attacking like a normal AD Ranged with your fresh attack speed boost. His R alone though, is pretty obscene and doesn't require any such ability to think or position. You, as an AD Ranged carry whose predominant source of damage is your fantastic auto-attack, are able to deal tremendous burst damage to the enemy team with impunity. Oh, and since it's conveniently physical damage it benefits from all his armor penetration. I wish Ashe, Miss Fortune, and Tristana could say the same. Their ultimate abilities are harshly punished end-game where most participants have 60 - 90 magic resist, and as AD Carries they are devoid of magic penetration. But not Graves - he for some reason enjoys freedom from the ability damage restrictions placed on "normal" carries. |
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Lets compare level 8 burst damage of Ashe and Graves with a BF sword. Ashe AA 114x2 (assuming she crits because of her passive) Volley rank4 70+45 Ultimate 250 593 total damage (with no runes/masteries and before mitigation) 479 if she doesn't crit you with her passive (which she normally won't because of last hitting) Graves AA 121 Buckshot rank4 195+36 (lets assume he only hits you with 1) Smoke Screen 60 Ultimate 250+63 725 total damage (with no runes/masteries and before mitigation) 840.5 if he hits you with all 3 of his buckshot He also has +50% AS for the next 4 seconds to finish you off. Ashe's ultimate is magic damage which will be reduced more than graves' ult because nobody in his right mind will carry MPen. That's with only 1 item. It gets worse as you get more AD. Ashe doesn't have high burst. |
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One starts to wonder what the purpose of AP is in the game. AP was a mechanic for abilities to scale off of ('Ability' power), whereas AD was meant to increase the power of characters' standard attacks. Then we started getting champions like Lee Sin, Talon, and Graves who use AD to simultaneously increase the power of their auto attacks as well as their abilities. So now that we have AD scaling abilities, the only real function AP has in the game is to make it so Annie, for instance, can become more powerful without also being able to right click you for 800 damage. The very reason the older AD Carries like Ashe, Miss Fortune, and Tristana have predominantly AP scaling abilities is so that they couldn't accomplish the inverse; hit you for 800 damage autos and then drop crazy ability damage on you. AD and AP had distinguished roles. And now people can't figure out that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way Graves functions. Double-dipping off the attack damage stat means he gets to disregard the limitations intentionally placed on other Ranged AD by the designers. Doesn't that seem weird? Or ill-advised? Tristana's ratios are AP for a very good reason - imagine being nailed with a 1200 damage Buster Shot scaling from AD and then killed with Rapid Fire'd Infinity Edge shots. She would simultaneously be a burst caster and an AD carry, which I can only infer from her AP ratios was considered a bad idea by the designers. Well, that's what Graves does. |
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Draft Mode Tier List - Ahri (Part 1) by Elementz on Wednesday, December 21st 2011 - 02:00 / 11802 Views / Tier 1: Xerath, Skarner, Morgana, Graves |
