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The one that was left behind - Xin Zhao

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Lord Angry ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall008 View Post
Red response!
Several red responses!

Stonewall gets work done

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Acĉlus ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

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Originally Posted by Constrictor View Post
I respectfully disagree. Of the three champions listed, only Shen could be countered with your point, and I would counter that by saying the amount of damage and sustain Shen has in lane makes him competitive with (and superior to most) melee fighter top laners.

Although his ultimate role later on is that of a defensive/damaging/disrupting tank, he is an absolute beast during laning phase.

Irelia and Lee are certainly both in the same role as Xin. They operate as tanky dps/mobile melee assassins throughout the game, which is the same sort of role Xin fits.

They are also lightyears better than Xin in every way. If you don't agree with what I've written then ask yourself why Irelia/Lee are used so often amongst high ELO players in solo queue and tournament play alike while Xin is not?
Have to agree with this.

Irelia and Lee are seen as characters right along the same lines as Xin, yet Xin is the only one with no real late game scaling to make him viable past the 20-25 minute mark. If you beleive that Lee and Irelia are balanced and in good positions, Xin needs some buffs to just bring him up to their level.

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A Jungle Buff ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Take the god-awful AP scaling off of audacious charge. It's literally a complete waste. Even if someone were bonehead enough to go AP Xin, it scales at a .4 ratio on a fairly high CD skill. It's completely pointless.

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Falleth ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
where he can be balanced, and not just pubstompy or overpowered. And given the choice between Xin being too good and removing the ability to play any other fighter, and having him not be competitively viable, the latter is better overall for the game until he can have his work done.
Xin wasn't competitive back when you nerfed him in V1.0.0.124 or even V1.0.0.120 patch, nor picked in any decent elo range.

Two recent nerfs were just a silly nails to the coffin Xin was already in;

And to change him heavily you need chainsaw treatment.

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Lord Angry ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falleth View Post
Xin wasn't competitive back when you nerfed him in V1.0.0.124 or even V1.0.0.120 patch, nor picked in any decent elo range.

Two recent nerfs were just a silly nails to the coffin Xin was already in;

And to change him heavily you need chainsaw treatment.
It wasn't nerfing to competitive picks, it was nerfing to counter pubstomping.

Man, I've been reading red posts all morning, it's amazing how much they have to repeat themselves!

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Guttler ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Your comparison isn't accurate - you're comparing, in many cases, champions dedicated to the mechanic you're using as an example. IE: Of course Shen, as a Tank, has a stronger CC skill than Xin (which late game, that's even debatable). This is the exact problem with Xin - he does everything, and as soon as he does any of it well, he's crazy. And with these mechanics, if he's not crazy, he's weak.

As I said before, it's going to take some skill reworking to allow us to buff Xin into a place where he can be balanced, and not just pubstompy or overpowered. And given the choice between Xin being too good and removing the ability to play any other fighter, and having him not be competitively viable, the latter is better overall for the game until he can have his work done.

There's a lot to do, and we have to prioritize what we work on. Xin's on there, just not quite yet.
Amen. Xin Zhao players need to realize that buffing him, even a little, puts him over the top.

Being able to gap close and then immediately CC leads to some serious abuse case scenarios when you also do fighter damage. Xin shouldn't be able to EQ and either kill his target flat out or force a flash.

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Volkae ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constrictor View Post
I respectfully disagree. Of the three champions listed, only Shen could be countered with your point, and I would counter that by saying the amount of damage and sustain Shen has in lane makes him competitive with (and superior to most) melee fighter top laners.

Although his ultimate role later on is that of a defensive/damaging/disrupting tank, he is an absolute beast during laning phase.

Irelia and Lee are certainly both in the same role as Xin. They operate as tanky dps/mobile melee assassins throughout the game, which is the same sort of role Xin fits.

They are also lightyears better than Xin in every way. If you don't agree with what I've written then ask yourself why Irelia/Lee are used so often amongst high ELO players in solo queue and tournament play alike while Xin is not?
You're missing the entire point... Xin, when buffed, pubstomps and creates a field that isn't stable - I.E. New players leaving the game. In other words, Eve. I don't know how hard that is to understand. They're already working on Eve/Twitch, champions that do the same thing. You can't very well split priorities and expect concrete work to get done.

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Constrictor ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttler View Post
Amen. Xin Zhao players need to realize that buffing him, even a little, puts him over the top.

Being able to gap close and then immediately CC leads to some serious abuse case scenarios when you also do fighter damage. Xin shouldn't be able to EQ and either kill his target flat out or force a flash.
Explain Irelia and Lee Sin.

Both can gap close and CC you, while doing high damage and being tanky themselves.

Ever tried to get away from a 1v1 with a Lee Sin who is on you and you're not right next to a tower?

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Dangarembga ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Morello took the easy way out and only focused on shen,
but if we only compare Xin and Irelia,
Irelia does everything xin does, but just waaay better in addition to other things, she does (reduce enemy cc)

AKA
-she has more sustain
-reliable cc
-gap closer with instant cd refresh
-massive true dmg steroid

Why is Xin toxic and Irelia isnt?

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Lord Angry ?? Senior Member
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03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constrictor View Post
Explain Irelia and Lee Sin.

Both can gap close and CC you, while doing high damage and being tanky themselves.

Ever tried to get away from a 1v1 with a Lee Sin who is on you and you're not right next to a tower?
Irelia is hard CC when you're better off than she is

Lee sin doesn't have hard CC

Xin Zhao has a knockup, one of two types of cc that can not be cleansed out of. in late game, it's basically on auto attack because of his mana costs and aspd steroids. he doesn't even need a cc item to slow you (like lee sin/irelai) it's ON his gap closer.

JUST

SAYIN

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