Originally Posted by IncendiarySpade
might wanna put that lane fiddle HARD counters vlad... (hardest counter in game imo)
Yup, have him listed. I'll be sure to post why once I get down that far (:
Originally Posted by mymainjustgotban
Ive had success against Veigar, Katarina, and Kassadin as Wukong (The only mages I've played against as wukong). I'd wager that wukong can counter nearly every melee mage due to his superior burst and harass. Due to his gap closer and stealth he would be able to force many ranged mages out of lane. Once you get lvl 6 you can eithelr try and kill your lane opponent, or push to tower and go gank. Wukong is an exceptionally ganker at lvl 6. If you're running wukong mid, you probably want to have an ap top like vlad, kennen, or rumble. Coicidentally, all of these casters have good synergy with Wukong in teamfights (aoe dmg and disruption).
Also, GP is a hard, hard .counter to Kassadin. You q spam better than he does, and he can't trade with you. This prevents him from walking anywhere near the creeps until they get to his tower, where he has trouble farming. This doesn't change post 6, as if he riftwalks to you, you simply kill him. While you would be hard pressed to actually kill a kassadin as GP, you can prevent him from farming and roaming which effectively shuts him down.
Riven counters Chogath. Start Dorans blade and be incredibly aggressive at level 1-3. Cho has two options: 1. run and dont approach creeps until they get to the tower. 2. Give up first blood. Chogath will be forced to hug the tower for the entirety of the laning phase;however, riven has harass easily at the turret if you use her skills correctly. Also, you can use your mobility to push to cho's tower and then roam looking to make plays. Riven is a great ganker mid game and is good for securing objectives such as dragon or buffs. If my opponent is tower hugging when I play Riven I either dive him and kill him or get my team together and go take objectives. I often see people say Chogath is a riven counter due to his sustain and his silence but I just dont think this is true.
In no way does Nasus counter Shyvanna. Shyvanna has an incredibly strong early and mid game. In lane, Nasus will not be able to go near his creeps until they get to his tower because of shyvana's damage. Shyvanna will push the lane hard, so Nasus will get farm under tower, but during that down time Shyvanna can invade the enemy jungle and steal camps and buffs (depending on which side you're on). She also almost nearly guarantees sucessful invades as she will be much stronger than nasus in early/mid game jungle skirmishes. Nasus is probably a bit (not much imo) better than her lategame but this early and mid game weakness in no way makes up for it.
Nasus also does not counter counter Gangplank. Gangplank's early game is one of the strongest out of any champions (comparable only to Riven and Garen IMO) so Nasus will be forced to either farm at his tower or die. GP can still harass him under his tower by q spamming him. If nasus trys to wither GP in a man fight, GP can simple orange out of it and continue to smack nasus. Gp is strong mid game as well, and can force Nasus under his tower and then go take objectives with his team.
Thanks for pointing out the Wukong counter to mid, I would have never thought of it... However a dash, aa, Q, clone away would counter any targeting caster. I don't think as strongly against Veigar due to the stun, but Ryze, Katarina I'd agree with for sure. Kassadin has a silent and then a few others tricks that would ruin that harass combo and I think not make him as effective of a counter.
I'd agree with the GP vs Kassadin counter.
Cho'Gath farms just fine under turret, and without Riven having any range would not be able to do much to him as he farmed and grew tanky while doing a bit of harass here and there. I would say she pushes the lane great against him, but doesn't effectively counter him like a Tryndamere that destroy's him at lvl 6 and a Teemo that totally counters his passive. I would say a neutral farming lane match-up.
As far as a Shyvana countering Nasus, I don't see it. Someone else had posted stating that she was strong against him early game (another thread), but I would have to say I agree with the fact that he doesn't counter her.
I'd also agree with Nasus not countering Gangplank. Mid-Late game yes, but laning phase no. He's able to spam wither much faster than Gangplank can orange and be k so he would be devastated at that point... But GP will be able to push to turret and force him to farm under the turret (which he can do fine so they don't counter either, it becomes a farming lane, however Nasus does have stronger sustain so he would be fine).
Thanks so much for your thoughts! Especially with the Wukong idea. Never would have thought of that bro (:
What does everyone think of how Wukong would do against:
Kennen, Lux, Master Yi, Nasus, Nidalee, Shyvana, Vladimir?