Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral Yorae
What about increase her Hitten Style passive Heal while lowering it's true damage.
Then, add a low AP scale (0.10~0.15) to the true damage and active Heal.
Irelia used to be more hybrid. After her ultimate became physical damage, even tought she have different damage sources, amor is still one of the best defenses against her and I see most people building for AD too.
Giving a new reason to build hybrid could make people need to choose in where to focus. Hybrid items are expensive and don't offer as much resistances as the setups commonly used on her. That could give her a more assassin's glamour than a bruiser's.
Below I made a example:
Astral Yorae
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The True damage already scales of AS though, giving it even more scaling is stupid. Especially something pointless like AP scaling. That doesn't really seem to help her.
It's bad enough Corki has true damage scaling on AS, AD, and I believe even crit.
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Originally Posted by nekrøphile
It is irrelevant whether Irelia's sustain is one of the best in solo top and is given without any cost, because Irelia NEEDS it. Irelia is only good because she is able to win any top lane match up (note I said is able, not by default), and is very hard to counter. She is sort of like yorick, except yorick is tankier and gives a really good utility, while Irelia does more damage. Irelia's mid game is not the core of why she is good, because lets face it, 90% of solo tops have a good mid game, and most of them aren't much worse than Irelia's, some of them are even be on-par or better.
Oh and by the way, I was talking about ww's healing in team fights that made him tanky, not about his sustain in lane.
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His healing in team fights is really dependent more on positioning. If it's JUST a team fight (no minions around he can help easily leach hp from) it's a bit harder. The only people he'll safely be able to leach hp from tend to be those who get a decent amount of MR since they're up close. If it's a team worth a **** and he jumps on their ranged carry he'll likely be blown up. I'd say his sustain in a team fight is still not as high as others. It's not bad, mind you. But ya he needs that sustain in a team fight to even be viable. Just as Irelia "needs it" according to you.
Btw, if WW is such a great pick, why is he not a constant pick/ban for tournaments? I know for a fact he wasn't picked or banned ONCE for IEM. I can't recall if he was picked or banned for others though. He's a great use in pub games, but for tournament games? Eh, not so much. Irelia on the other hand was a good pick for both. Atm? Well, I agree they hit her in the wrong place.
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Originally Posted by porntastic
why is this not on page one? shut up and take my bumps, and have her true damage scale with bonus AD!
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People, STOP SUGGESTING SCALING TRUE DAMAGE. It already scales with AS, it's bad enough others have scaling true damage. Olaf's prolly the only one who doesn't (except for CDR which is really not going to effect it much). I'd rather she get scaling on her physical damage abilities tbh.
And I swear people comparing it to Olaf's true damage just look at initial burst and don't think at all at the situation and realize how much better sticking power Irelia has than Olaf which is why her true damage can be more potent (yes his can be good too, but Olaf, after 6 seconds, is easy to peel off for coordinated teams, again, why do you think he's rarely a pick in tournaments? At least was, I have heard there was a tournament I missed after Kiev and I don't know about it).
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Originally Posted by Nightmare Mo0n
Tried playing irelia vs yorick lane in ranked, normally it was alright and I haven't played that lane matchup since her nerf.
with a philo + wriggles + babysitting (I was something like 4/2/3) I was STILL getting out-harassed by him, and I couldn't heal it all back up fast enough with auto attacking + popping W and ult on lane.
I was very very sad.
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Did you build MR? I bet you, like many others, have yet to realize that the two abilities Yorick harasses most with (E and W) are magical and, like many others, have failed to learn to get MR against him first. Get MR, it prolly would help more.
Though, not saying Irelia still doesn't need help. Just saying it might have helped more if you didn't.
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Originally Posted by nekrøphile
See some problems there?
Also, you won't be killing anybody at level 9 when you are outfarmed and most likely out leveled. Oh and guess how hard they nerfed the sustain? 50%. Back then morde's shield got cut by ~50%, but I guess he was still viable (before recent buffs) because only his shield got nerfed right?
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Dat straw man.
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Originally Posted by Dnomes
Since we both have a fairly similar Elo, I am quite surprised how your opinion differs from mine.
You've become a recently popular streamer and I am glad that you are stirring up some debate in this thread.
Though, since Irelia's only real headpoint (?) is in the midgame, how can you find it fair that for a safepick champion like her gets nerfed even further in her weak phases.
First of all, why would you pick Irelia (Since she was commonly known as THE safe pick for top lane) over Udyr or Lee Sin per say.
Never did we state that her damage has changed (Or it has since she gets item so slowly), she has no abilities to retaliate from ganks anymore, if she gets disadvantaged in early game it is over.
Also people have commonly started to gank my lane (Since I am known as one of the last Irelia players in EUW) and kept camping me until I couldn't offer anything to my team since I was so much behind in farm and gold in general.
How is it fair for Irelia, when Udyr and Lee Sin are able to press lolshield button or Warwick whom has infinity sustain.
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*sigh* WW doesn't have infinite sustain. That Q costs a lot of his small mana pool. And that's his main sustain in lane and he has no real escape unless his E smells someone low in range and if your teammates gank a WW when low that's lolzy.
Udyr and Lee Sin need to be hit, no doubt, but they will be.
And, my god.. really? You think any other hero can't be shut down if they are camped hard top? All tops being camped hard will be pretty weak. Actually, very few would deal with that well. And that's not a bad thing if your team is smart. If you're being camped so hard top, free buff stealing, free dragon, free ganks other lanes. Hell, if you know they're camping, bait the gank and have your jungler + mid come up and gank them. GG 2 kills for likely at most 1.
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Originally Posted by Wingsofdeathx
She is not a safe pick anymore. Doesn't mean she is bad either. Shes just not the "answer to everything except udyr" top lane anymore. Jungle ganks also completely destroy alot of champions early on. That is why some of the best top laners are the best top laners. They can avoid ganks and mitigate the disadvantage of losing hp in lane. Irelia cant do that as well anymore because her nerfed sustain doesnt give her a free full heal under tower when shes pushed in. This means you can play aggressively early and put her at enough of a disadvantage that it becomes too difficult to take advantage of her strong damage and trading lvls 4-7. Once you go back for the first time, buying an early vamp scepter pretty much fixes the sustain nerf. Build a wriggles if necessary. You might even consider running tp to avoid getting pushed around too much.
I feel that in certain matchups she can still work but against the more popular top lanes she is not longer as attractive of an option because she just loses early. If you know what you're going up against, she can be a good champion to have top depending on the matchup. She seems like more of a counterpick than a universal pick now but it doesn't mean shes awful.
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This. And tbh I hate the "universal" pick thing. There are counters to WW, Yorick, and most other "ridiculously strong top laners." The last few left need to be hit. Btw, wanna know some counters to Yorick? Trundle, Nasus, Cho'Gath as well as building a little MR. There, your top lane is now safe from Yorick harass. I've already gone over WW counters -_-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meecherrr
Honestly, it's not as drastic as Eve, but this is what Riot does.
Part of the community complains and gripes about a champion that isn't over powered or anything, just FotM and hard to counter, and super nerfs them into uselessness.
It happened like this with Irelia too, here's the Eve example:
Riot: "Oh no, people are whining about getting stunned out of no where!"
Community: "But she's an assassin! A stealth champion! That's what she's supposed to do!"
Riot: "So?" *NERF NERF NERF*
And now Irelia:
Riot: "Oh boy, no one can beat Irelia top, better nerf her."
Community: "But she's a mid game champion, she's not even OP! Look at her late game!"
Riot: "Oh well..." *NERF NERF NERF*
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See the vast difference though? Irelia? Almost no real counter pick. That's a problem. Eve? EVERYONE was a counter pick to her if they knew how to play against her. Just, the problem was people were dumb about knowing how to play against her. That is where the problem is vastly different. Eve was easily countered even before a single nerf. Irelia? Not so much. Not being able to be countered is broken. Hence why we'll see Udyr and Lee Sin nerfs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekrøphile
All champions can be not fun to play against to a certain extent, and Irelia is only at most slightly more frustrating to play against. Champions should only be nerfed because it is not fun to play against if and only if it is extremely unfun/frustrating to play against (eve, twitch). Irelia is NOT one of those champions. Even shaco after all those nerfs, are more frustrating to play against compared to Irelia.
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Really? You're saying Irelia, who had no real counter pick pre-nerf, wasn't frustrating to play against? Like really unfun/frustrating... .come now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsofdeathx
Its the exact same reason dodge was removed from the game. Losing to RNG is not fun. It wasnt necessarily overpowered. When you win you should outplay your opponent, not blow harder on the dice before you roll. I believe Morello had an entire post on anti fun mechanics and why they are trying to move the game away from them. Also I think soraka and lulu are due for some nerfs soon.
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Soraka? Wtf? Why? Her heal is already one of the most inefficient in the game iirc the math. Her E is decent, but she either harasses with it or she gives mana. It's a choice (and pretty much her only one, zzz). Her Q is a terrible choice cause you push the lane and that's bad. Her AD is one of the lowest so the whole "dreaded banana" is really just silly, and her R is really not that great at rank 1, not bad, but not great.
Why does Soraka need nerfs? She isn't even chosen often as say Janna or Lulu or Alistar in tournaments. Why are they chosen? Cause they provide better types of CC. CC that's not mitigated, that screws with the enemy's positioning, and provides either really good shields with steroids or the most efficient heal in the game O.o
There, I have finally caught up with the thread since I checked it last Friday -_q
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