http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2012385
An interesting forum post which I`d like to share in this forum; regarding AP casters in the jungle.

Forest Tome (1000g)
Amplifying Tome (435g) + Cloth Armor (300g) + 265g = 1000g [Madred`s Razor`s price]
30 Ability Power [up from 25]
21 Armor
UNIQUE Active: Reduces the Attack Speed of a neutral monster by 30% for 8 seconds. 15 second cooldown.
The reason behind the active is so that it only affects junglers, just like Wriggle`s


A Madred`s Razor type of Passive would be too strong for spammable champions such as Karthus or Cassiopeia.
What do you think of this item? Is it too strong or too weak? Better to have a Passive or Active? Constructive criticism is appreciated!
I think this would be a little buff to AP junglers.
This item is the AP equivalent of Madred`s Razer, while this next item is similar in equivalent to Madred`s Bloodrazor, it is not necessary, but I`ll add it here anyway.

Nature`s Staff (2760g)
Forest Tome (1000g) + Amplifying Tome (435g) + Chain Vest (700g) + 565g = 2700g
60 Ability Power
55 Armor [12 less than Chain Vest+Forest Tome]
UNIQUE Aura: Increases the Armor of nearby allied champions by 12

This will be the third item after Forest Tome and Zhonya`s Hourglass to provide Armor and Ability Power, which many players really would like. However, this isn`t too necessary for AP junglers.

Many issues in creating an AP jungling item are:

• Spellvamp would defeat the point of previous nerfs
• A Wriggle`s proc would be too beneficial to Cassiopeia, Karthus, etc.
• AOE would also be confusing to combine with Wriggle`s procs
• Making sure it wouldn`t be too strong in lane

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...03119&page=152
Looking forward to a constructive discussion on this
Looking forward to new ideas too

There are not that many people in this bandwagon, but I hope that this idea will be somewhat implemented into the game xD

I like it
Edit: Forest staff is sort of pointless since we have DFG :/ DFG = Bursty madreds
Would be cool is it could upgrade into something but make it more utility, less offencive.
Maybe somthing like :
Forest tome (1000)
Fiendish Codex (1245)
+765 cost=
+60 AP
+8 mana regen
+25 armor
UNIQUE Passive: 15% cdr
Active: Summon 1 Treant for 15 seconds. Deals little damage but gives vision and a mana regen aura. Somewhat tanky too. Can be controled. 75 second cd?
Free trees. Who doesn't like trees?
Maybe a BIT to strong. Idunn0 just giving imput

pimp hand + 900000000000000 ap

That seems like an alright of an idea. I like the moving ward part. I might turn that idea into a support item idea
And you`re right about DFG doing a lot of damage already.

AH! I found one problem with this. If Annie has her ultimate up, how would the Treant move? Tibbers already has alt+click movement.

Make it cost efficient !!! on madreds u gain 5 ad and 5 armor plus the proc for 285g (true cost would be 207,5 + 83,50 ,the passive is free ) , to be equal u need to give more ap or more armor , and in both free passive.

Man , rethink this passive ... WHAT THE **** A JUNGLER NEEDS ? kill things quickly and sustain. I would make "on spell effect" instead of a proc , something like "your spells now inflicts X extra dmg against monsters/creeps".

For the sustain u can mimic Cho or Mao passive in the 'Nature Staff', would work but i guess ppl in lane will abuse (veigar in lane forever).

And last ... the cost and the active (rly ? another nuke for ppl who already can insta kill u) nature staff seems wrong for a counter part

gunna want to change that to [0.2 * Ability Power]. that or do no damage

And 0kur03 thanks for your responses, they are greatly appreciated. I have removed the nuking active of the latter item.

Kanaheck, I would agree on some points, however having a "on spell" effect would make Karthus` Q and Cass`s Q too effective to jungle compared to Singed. Also, since his Poison Trail is a toggle, that is even more complicated to achieve a balanced item.
The point of my active is not to make it faster, but safer. With blue buff, AP junglers should be able to deal more damage than AD champions: Namely Cassiopeia with her W+E,E,E,E combo. Spell vamp is too abusable in lane whilst speeding up the process would make AD junglers sub-par.

I do agree with the cost-effectiveness point. It is highly cost ineffective and I will look into changing these values

Aisling's Whisper (1000g)
Amplifying Tome (435g) + Cloth Armor (300g) + 265g = 1000g
25 Ability Power
23 Armor
Unique passive: 15% of spell damage against monsters is returned as health.

Eye of Crom (1600g)
Aisling's Whisper (1000g) + Amplifying Tome (435g) + 165g = 1600g
28 armor
45 ability power
Unique passive: 15% of spell damage against monsters is returned as health and has a 20% dealing an additional 25% spell damage to monsters.
Unique active: Reveals an area of the map for 3 seconds (range 1800). 2500 range for placement. 50 sec cooldown.

edit: Numbers will be tweaked as I do math. Too lazy tonight.

think about a timer on this effect , like the cooldown on Sheen and make it a proc chance while is on 'cd' (isnt a true cd lol, but the idea is when is off cd happens for sure, when its on u have a chance)...in singed case idk , code it to aply in every tick (respecting the timer thing) , again idk ...