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Equality and diversity in the League

View Poll Results: Would you like to see this issue addressed and amended by Riot?
Yes. 15 39.47%
No. 23 60.53%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Finnept ?? Member
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09-02-2012

(Apologies for reposting, albeit in a different forum, but I realised I had posted this at first in perhaps the wrong spot)

Let me start by saying that I admire where you've taken the legacy of DotA and I appreciate the effort and care that goes into the designing of all aspects of League of Legends. I'm sure it's hard trying to please all the fans. You've done a fine job so far. I'm happy with the game-play, happy with the match-making, happy with the balancing of the champions, happy with all the meat of the game. What I can't get past is the lack of diversity among female champs. When it comes to male champs, there are the huge and super-muscular (Mundo), the awesomely grotesque (Trundle), the animals and monsters (Twitch, Nasus, Renekton, Volibear, Skarner, Kog'Maw, Cho'Gath for chrissakes do I have to list them all?), the small and/or adorable (Teemo, Corki, Veigar, Ziggs, Heimerdinger, you know the drill, you made 'em), the rotund (Urgot and the inebriated Gragas), the elemental and/or magical beings (Nocturne, Maokai, Xerath), the insane (Shaco), the brutal (Mordekaiser, Tryndamere, Pantheon), the undead (Karthus) and the chronically depressed (and bandaged and mummified Amumu). Oh and a freaking minotaur.

I wish I could find as great a variety in the female champs. Most of them are human, mostly human, partly human, humane-like or Yordle in appearance (with the ONE exception being Anivia). Many, many more males do not fit under this category. Most of them are incredibly slim and not muscular, even champs like Riven, who uses amassive sword, and Poppy, who uses an enormous shield and a hammer the size of her own torso simultaneously. Don't get me wrong, I love Poppy and her awesome, gritty attitude and her 'hammer diplomacy' line, even though she ought to be a good deal beefier in the arms. I like the look of Diana, even though she's another human champ. Diana, like Kayle (another awesome (if still very human-like) champ), is very appropriately and battle-practically armoured (at least, in her classic skin), which is more than I can say for some female champions.

Caitlyn might have a great attitude, but nobody in their right minds - especially not a fight-savvy sherriff - would sport a skimpy outfit like that on the fields of justice. I'm aware that Varus is similarly poorly dressed, but that could at least be attributed to some requirement for unleashing his dark powers, or something, and Mundo's malfunctioning wardrobe is just because he's insane. Caitlyn, frankly, has no excuse. I'm leaving most of the other scantily-clad female champs out of this argument because most of them classify for the questionable 'I'm a mage and too much armour/clothing will hinder my movement and/or magic because I'm not as physically strong as those sword-wielding brutes,' but I think you should really have a look at how many female champs are human or human-like, wearing tight and/or scanty outfits and are skinny and well-endowed in the bust. Champs fitting under two or more of these four categories are: Ahri, Akali, Annie, Ashe, Caitlyn, Cassiopeia, Diana, Evelynn, Fiora, Irelia, Janna, Karma, Katarina, Kayle, LeBlanc, Leona, Lulu, Lux, Miss Fortune, Morgana, Nidalee, Orianna, Poppy, Riven, Sejuani, Shyvana, Sivir, Sona, Soraka, Tristana, Vayne and Zyra. Oh dear, was that all but one of the female champions in League of Legends? Hmm, something to think about right there. The lack of non-skinny female champions in League of Legends could definitely have a negative impact on women who aren't skinny. All the female champions are designed to be physically attractive in a conventional sense, while the male champions come in all shapes, types and sizes (but not all colours, something I might get mad about after I'm done with the issue at hand). This tells the male audience that, (almost (see previous statement of "not all colours")) no matter who (or what) they are, they can be a hero, or at the very least they can be like a hero. The female audience, on the other hand, seems to be given the message that, in order to be a hero, they must be skinny and attractive, and possibly wear some inappropriate garments.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any individual champion. It's okay for a champ to wear somewhat revealing clothing and be a bit underweight if that's what suits their battle role and personality, but most of the time, it just doesn't. Even so, there's a lot to like about almost every champ in the League, each being powerful and awesome in their own way. It's the big picture that upsets me. Please, please have a look at a more diverse range of female champions. I'm not saying you should straight-up introduce a dark-skinned, non-human, non-Yordle, superbly muscular and heavily-armoured female monster champion ASAP. Just broaden your horizons. Make the fields of justice a better place. Make the League of Legends an upstanding example of equality. For yourselves. For the players. For the world.

Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Finnept

 
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Jamaree ?? Senior Member
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09-02-2012

I'm sorry, Lulu and Annie have chest?...Where? Lux looks like a 100% ordinary girl, in every way shape and form. How are Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Karma,Leona, Shyvana, Kayle, and Vanye scant? They are covered head to toe, in fact, none of them show skin (except with skins) other then their face and hands.
Side note, when *** stops selling not just to gamers but people in general, companies will stop using it. Until then, *** has shown to increase sales, so *** will keep being used to sell, blame society, not the companies for profitting off of it.

 
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CerealBoxOfDoom ?? Senior Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnept View Post
Caitlyn might have a great attitude, but nobody in their right minds - especially not a fight-savvy sherriff - would sport a skimpy outfit like that on the fields of justice.
ahri would xD

also they technically are trying to win "influence points." so I think flavorwise you could say theyve gotta stay popular

 
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CerealBoxOfDoom ?? Senior Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaree View Post
I'm sorry, Lulu and Annie have chest?...Where? Lux looks like a 100% ordinary girl, in every way shape and form. How are Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Karma,Leona, Shyvana, Kayle, and Vanye scant? They are covered head to toe, in fact, none of them show skin (except with skins) other then their face and hands.
Side note, when *** stops selling not just to gamers but people in general, companies will stop using it. Until then, *** has shown to increase sales, so *** will keep being used to sell, blame society, not the companies for profitting off of it.
dat lulu and her skimpy little outfit... mmmmhmmmmm yeah mang.

 
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67chrome ?? Senior Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnept View Post
Oh dear, was that all but one of the female champions in League of Legends?
"Human like" and "Not Fat that can't be considered cute and cuddly" makes that argument unusually specific and a largely irrelevant point, I'd say at least omit Poppy, Tristana, Lulu, and Annie from the rant as they show a similar sign of diversity outside of the idealized female shape as the more colorful male champions.

On your point I don't understand why Kog'Maw, Cho'Gath, or Skarner wasn't designed as a female with how most cold-blooded animals are Matriarchal or the dominant gender is female. The fact animals and elementals tend to be assigned as "male" by default is slightly aggrivating, though at least Nidalee and Shyvana can hang with Anivia in their ultimate forms.

Out of the champions you listed Sejuani is the only one that really bothers me though, her outfit is thematically unfitting for both her ice-theme and tanking roll.

Beyond that there are roughly the same number of male champions with idealized bodies as female champions with them (Garen, Xin Zhao, Jarven, Darius, Graves, Varus, Shen, Draven, Gangplank, Jayce, Lee Sin, Pantheon, Talon, Taric, Tryndamere, Twisted Fate, Olaf, etc.), so the biggest disparity is in all the more bestial champions, were male tends to be the default.

 
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Finnept ?? Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaree View Post
I'm sorry, Lulu and Annie have chest?...Where? Lux looks like a 100% ordinary girl, in every way shape and form. How are Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Karma,Leona, Shyvana, Kayle, and Vanye scant? They are covered head to toe, in fact, none of them show skin (except with skins) other then their face and hands.
Side note, when *** stops selling not just to gamers but people in general, companies will stop using it. Until then, *** has shown to increase sales, so *** will keep being used to sell, blame society, not the companies for profitting off of it.
You'll note that I said that all these champs fit under 2 or more of the categories of
-Human or human-like
-Wearing tight and/or scanty outfits
-Skinny
-Well-endowed in the bust

Lulu and Annie are human or human-like (Yordles are not human but are humanoid) and skinny. That's 2 categories, so they are appropriately listed.

Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Karma, Leona, Shyvana, Kayle, and Vayne are all human/humanoid and skinny, so they are also appropriately listed.

In response to your side note, I never ever blamed Riot for this. I understand that *** sells. But I also think you can very well sell a game without it. I'm expressing an interest in moving away from all that. I lean towards champions of the inhuman variety and frankly I'd like to see more inhuman champions who aren't male. I would have dropped money in the store already if I wasn't so perturbed by the issue of inequality that so bothers me, and I want to give everyone who thinks likewise a chance or a platform to speak up. I want to show them they're not alone.

 
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Finnept ?? Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
ahri would xD

also they technically are trying to win "influence points." so I think flavorwise you could say theyve gotta stay popular
Fair go. You've a point about Ahri. But it still seems more than a little unfair that the female champs would all be so similar when the male champs are basically the mixiest of pick'n'mixes.

 
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Finnept ?? Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
dat lulu and her skimpy little outfit... mmmmhmmmmm yeah mang.
I believe this has been addressed in a previous reply. As I said, the champs I listed came under 2 or more categories:
-Being human/humanoid
-Being skinny
-Wearing scant/tight clothes
-Being well-endowed in the bust

If you don't think Lulu is humanoid and skinny, then I would question your visual perception.

 
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Jamaree ?? Senior Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnept View Post
You'll note that I said that all these champs fit under 2 or more of the categories of
-Human or human-like
-Wearing tight and/or scanty outfits
-Skinny
-Well-endowed in the bust

Lulu and Annie are human or human-like (Yordles are not human but are humanoid) and skinny. That's 2 categories, so they are appropriately listed.

Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Karma, Leona, Shyvana, Kayle, and Vayne are all human/humanoid and skinny, so they are also appropriately listed.

In response to your side note, I never ever blamed Riot for this. I understand that *** sells. But I also think you can very well sell a game without it. I'm expressing an interest in moving away from all that. I lean towards champions of the inhuman variety and frankly I'd like to see more inhuman champions who aren't male. I would have dropped money in the store already if I wasn't so perturbed by the issue of inequality that so bothers me, and I want to give everyone who thinks likewise a chance or a platform to speak up. I want to show them they're not alone.
...Why aren't you doing the same thing for the male side as well then, you can't just ask for equality then ignore both sides of the equations. You made that scale FAR too broad by the way, because I can do the exact same with males and get nearly the entire cast of males. While you might be willing to buy a fat old hag of a champion, I'm doubt the larger part of the community would, and there are plenty of players who admit that they only buy champions and skins in general based on how they look.

As for the Lulu and Annie thing...would you prefer it be a fat little girl and fat yordle running about? How about fat/chubby Lux?

 
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Finnept ?? Member
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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
"Human like" and "Not Fat that can't be considered cute and cuddly" makes that argument unusually specific and a largely irrelevant point, I'd say at least omit Poppy, Tristana, Lulu, and Annie from the rant as they show a similar sign of diversity outside of the idealized female shape as the more colorful male champions.

On your point I don't understand why Kog'Maw, Cho'Gath, or Skarner wasn't designed as a female with how most cold-blooded animals are Matriarchal or the dominant gender is female. The fact animals and elementals tend to be assigned as "male" by default is slightly aggrivating, though at least Nidalee and Shyvana can hang with Anivia in their ultimate forms.

Out of the champions you listed Sejuani is the only one that really bothers me though, her outfit is thematically unfitting for both her ice-theme and tanking roll.

Beyond that there are roughly the same number of male champions with idealized bodies as female champions with them (Garen, Xin Zhao, Jarven, Darius, Graves, Varus, Shen, Draven, Gangplank, Jayce, Lee Sin, Pantheon, Talon, Taric, Tryndamere, Twisted Fate, Olaf, etc.), so the biggest disparity is in all the more bestial champions, were male tends to be the default.
You have a point about the Yordles and Annie. They are indeed not typical, but they are still designed to be physically appealing rather than grotesque or monstrous like so many male champs.
We are completely on the same page about Sejuani. Absolutely ridiculous.
I get your point about the number of idealised male champions, but I believe it doesn't exactly work to go by number rather than percentage, since there are fewer female champs on the whole. The percentage of non-idealised females is much, much smaller than that of non-idealised males. That is sort of the issue here.