Reworking Tier list.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1568877

First off, Udyr is not a top tier jungle. As while he has speed and stun, he has no ranged slow like Shyvana and no jumps.

Morgana is not a top tier AP carry, her shield and stun help her get away but she has no mobility which is really important.

AP Shaco is not nearly as strong as it used to be, especially with the 90 to 60 second nerf on JITB's. Not sure why he is teir 2.

Also, Ahri is very much top teir as she has insane damage, mobility, and a taunt. No clue why Cho'Gath would be up their other than he is tanky.

Xin Zhao jungle is extremely difficult and hard to make work on 3v3.

Also, out of curiousity, what is your argument for why Cassiopea is a God Teir AP? I know Greedy Buddhist plays a good Cass but I've never seen Ahri loose to Cass.

"he has no ranged slow like Shyvana and no jumps." Shyvana has no "range slow". Her jungling maybe fast, but her ganks are useless, unless you have a insane CC laner. Udyr jungle is decently fast and more reliable when it comes to ganking.

Whats the point of mobility if you can just stun-lock with her Q and R, plus her mobility is really not that slow compare to ahri movement speed.

Shaco isn't t2 for being AP, he can play AP, read bold thanks. His role is jungle, his role is to gank and clear jungle, not because he is going to go AP. Plus shaco jungle lvl 2 gank is almost for sure instant first blood, unless the opponent plays it off real good and pops SS(summoner spell).

Xin Zhao jungle is actually not even difficult it is plain easy. Just he can't do anything once he goes in team fight, he either goes in and comes out killing all, or dies going in. He is just too squishy, but his ganks are very strong.

Ahri movement speed is really slow. She has nothing to escape until level 6. Her taunt isn't even that amazing. She is very squishy too. A jungle gank plus CC laner, automatic drop first blood and snowball.

"Also, out of curiousity, what is your argument for why Cassiopea is a God Teir AP? I know Greedy Buddhist plays a good Cass but I've never seen Ahri loose to Cass."

I would not know how he plays Cass, but Cass is top tier cause of her game changing ulti. She can almost pressure anybody out of lane. Ex. Singed.
Her Q gives her movement speed and does damage overtime. W slows. E 0.5 CD if poisoned, and her OP ulti. Which stun locks them. I mean you must not have seen a lot of good cass players because there isn't. Cass is a difficult champion to play.

I mean if you can prove me some sort of evidence that something is wrong on my tier list feel free. But you have so little explanation to why they shouldn't be there and you ciritize it with no reason. If you want to scrim and prove me that Cass doesn't deserve it, feel free to hit me up on LoL.

Lets go to your guys' Tier list.
Blitzcrank T2? No damage output? Can't hold lane against other variety of bruisers. I mean what kind of items do you plan to build with him?

Ziggs deserve that high of a tier? One move to get away (W) and its not even that reliable, his early/mid game is horrid. If he gets ganked he is going to be useless.

You must not ever seen an AP NUNU or an AP Janna or even an Amumu.

I can rant and explain how your whole tier list is not very useful but don't have that sort of time. Just because you have time to reach #1 on 3v3 ranking doesn't prove that much. Just all the "Good" players aren't playing ATM. Your being a little pretentious about the whole thing. So that's it.

1) Shyvana does have a ranged slow.
a) We role Shyvana with Wukong lane and always get firstblood (Whether it's against HaoZ, Sarrano, or anyone else). (Wukong has no early CC)
2) To avoid a gank from Udyr you simply back off, as if he cant hit you, you are fine. He would have to bust a flash to be able to land his stun on a good player.
3) Shaco is a decent jungle. I can agree to that.
4) Ahri is meant for bot lane. She doesn't need to be escaping if all she does if farm and power level to 6. Also she has flash in case a gank does occur.
5) I asked you about Cass as I was curious. I still think that she will be nuked down far to easily as placing her ult with CC and massive damage from 3 players flying at her is a little bit harder than just jumping away like Fizz or Ahri could do. But hell, add me to your list and we can try a game.
6) Someone who is good with blitzcrank will land grabs. Dual lane bot with Blitzcrank and you'll ensure the solo lane is denied very hard. Also blitz is incredibly tanky, has lots of CC, and does massive damage late game. He gets to initiate any fight he wants with his pull, and he can choose who to initiate it on.
7) I can see why NuNu would be good. An explanation on why Janna is good would be awesome. And lastly, Amumu is one of my favorite champs, and I love to troll around with him in 3's. The problem in 3's that there is less open space and more walls, meaning it is far more difficult to land a stun through the wall as the actual range of the stun is decreased.
8) The note on Ziggs was that with the lanes being so narrow, you can block Dragon or an entire lane with the land mines, which infact do a whole lot of damage. Ziggs can also hop walls with his jump, and has massive AoE damage. I think he may turn out to be top teir.

And finally, you may claim the "good" players aren't playing ATM. But all we are saying is that we seem to be the first team to be consistently beating HaoZ and his team, whereas no one else on the ladder has been able to. HaoZ has net wins of 100 some and only 9 losses, 5 of which to us. We figure if we can help other teams get to the stage where they can beat HaoZ as he is now, they would be thankful.

Obviously your tier list / strategies are not working if no one else is beating him, because he is the only "good player" atm.

>Shyvana does have a ranged slow.


>difficult to land a stun through the wall as the actual range of the stun is decreased
>actual range of the stun is decreased
>range of the stun is decreased
>decreased


Your tier list seems to be based around solo queue.
Also Shen above Xerath... HAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

cho tier 1.
aoe knockup, aoe buff to auto attack, aoe silence, high burst, high hp

Do you either of you have any replays of interesting games I could include in my Twisted Treeline Guide?

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...-165235?page=1

No offense but Sam has a list 100 times better then yours

I have a few issues with Sam's like he puts Ashe,sona, TF & soraka down it seems low they arent perfect but decent champs Sona is hax early/mid games to win ganks.

And no way Try is top

I do not agree with sam all the time but I will say he knows more then most of us about what champs are good at what.

First of all your ranked record isn't that super great.

Shaco is an amazing jungler and good ganks take a shaco as non jungler and you lose the only thing that makes him usable is how fast he clears jungle buffs at game start.

Nice job on #1, however, I think your list is highly misguided.

I think your team with Moro and Orby is stronger than mine, BUT, Riven tier 2, really?
Scrim against me, give us Riven, watch your stronger team lose.