Recently i've started playing as graves to practice my AD carry skillz (i'm usually top lane). I know that you typically want to aim for a berserkers greaves+bloodthirster+Phantom Dancer; however, some of the games i've played i've found that this build doesn't seem that effective (against a malphite, for instance).

I'm just wondering what some viable alternatives are; is a bloodthirster a MUST-HAVE for graves? is a black cleaver a viable alternative for a BT or PD? if i got a black cleaver, what should my other items be?

Any help would be appreciated.

i was under the impression that most ADCs run IE first, but there are variants that go BT first.

usually between the IE and BT i get only a zeal and not a PD. PD doesn't add to your AD so the crit isn't worth as much. plus it's very pricey.

i heard this from somewhere, but i was told that you get a BT if you expect to stall out the laning phase. you get an IE if you expect to end laning early and get into teamfights.

in addition, most ADCs build roughly the same, increase AD, increase crit. nothing wrong with a BT then PD. i think your main problem is going up against tanks. as the ADC you are expected to hit the highest priority target that you can reach safely. you have the range to ensure that you are not in the middle of combat. this means that you need to position yourself where you can hit the enemies, but they cannot hit you.

if you are having problems with certain champs, most likely you are positioning badly. i don't think items can help you out in that regard.

i meant that i've just recently started bot-lane AD carry, usually i'm a top-laner (Panth, Renekton, etc.)

Thanks CSZHung, i do think my overall skill needs to improve, but i just wondered if part of the problem was my build. I thought it was the AD carry's job to kill tanks tho? oh well

CSZHung is correct in that most of the time you want to grab an IE before you grab your BT. BT is for games where you expect the laning phase to be pretty long. PD is fine if you've gone with the IE first but is relatively lackluster when paired with the BT look at grabbing your Zeal and working towards the IE that you skipped before going whole hog on the PD.

Last Whisper is really the item that you want/need if you find yourself mainly hitting the tanks. That 40% armor pen really helps.

An ADC's job is to hit the highest priority target that they can safely hit. Most of the time this is indeed either the tank or the brusier of an enemy team but if you can catch the opposing ADC or APC out of position it is your job to throw out the facemelting they deserve for getting themself into that position. You should constantly be switching targets in a teamfight as the ADC as the battle rages. Stand behind the rest of your team for protection, yes but dont just hit the tank; hit the squishiest thing that you can get at.

Bt is nice early cause of the sustain, and the lack of a sustain support. And additionally ,with champs that have skills that scale off of ad, and don't crit, BT may actually be better. (The first two that come to mind, are Sivir + Urgot) For graves, I think its about equal, you could rush either a BT or Infinity. But if you are goign the infinity route, I'd get a couple dorans or a vamp for the lifesteal.

LW and GA are so damn important. I think BT --> PD --> GA --> LW is very viable. While IE --> PD does more damage, it's slower, and midgame teamfights are really important. You get BT for the early midgame, better sustain (you're getting a vamp sceptre anyway).

I agree with Magus Crow in that it really depends on your positioning skills and that will depend on your build priorities. With graves I usually build BG > IE > PD > BF > GA. There seems to be some ways of thinking that say you should buy a GA ASAP, but if your positioning is correct then you wont have to rely on the GA (and if your team has melted then you're screwed anyway). You only want PD first if you have on hit effects, you need a BF sword for stronger base damage and the the PD to rapidly apply that damage. Having a PD first isn't extremely effective unless you go all AD runes.

the consensus seems to be that the first BF sword item i take should be an IE, unless i expect the laning phase to be really long, and that a zeal/PD is nice but not really a priority. Thanks for the input! i'll try these out and see what happens

Zheal should be a priority even if you don't upgrade it to PD right away.
EVERYTHING on it is awesome for midgame fights