Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh
Hai guys.
I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).
Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).
That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.
Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
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So, if you are looking for reasons why players think the new map feels like Dominion, I can help you, I think. The same issue has come up in a couple other threads.
1. In dominion you are encouraged to jump in and fight from the beginning, taking emphasis away from laning, and putting more emphasis on ganking. It's about the same on the new TT, due to how much the capture points create a snowballing effect for the team that wins the first capturing encounter.
If you ignore the capture points, or even if you don't send all of your team there, from level 1, and every 90 seconds after that, you're probably going to get snowballed into the ground. If taking damage while on the capture point slowed the capture, it might be different. Then skill shots/ranged champs might be viable in play. As it is, you need everyone there, on the pad, fighting, which necessitates my next point: tanky ad.
2. In dominion you are forced to get bruiser/tanky builds, and support/assassin builds are impossible to use (provided you're against a competent team). Same with the new TT. One of the complaints about the old TT was that tanky ad dominated the game. Now, so far, it is even more that way than it ever was before. Only now, there are fewer chances of escaping if you DON'T have tanky ad champs.
Granted, there are other methods of team play in dominion that don't necessitate EVERYONE having tanky ad, but the only other method I can see/have experienced is to either have huge cc (also limiting champ selection) with other champs, or ... well, let's face it: huge cc. Even assassins tend to build way tanky in dominion if they play it. That, or go balls-out, taking big risks and hoping their reflexes/mechanics are faster than their opponents. It's a gamble, and it sometimes works, but mostly you need cc or a tanky build.
3. In Dominion, you have items that encourage quick encounters and constant ganks, etc. Same with the new items in the new TT. I said this on another post, and I will put 2 items I mentioned there in here as well, to give examples. I don't remember all of the other new items, and I can't claim that all of them do this, but let's assume that tanky ad dominates the game....here's my excerpt from the other post.
EDIT - Sorry; I was mistaken here. I remembered wrong, below. Only the wriggles item/lack of wards applies. i was mixing the memory of 2 other items for the tanky ad one. The Warmogs replacement only awards hp regen on assists/kills, which encourages teamfights, even though it's a tank item, and giving spell vamp/armor pen/hp in one item screams tanky bruiser. (On a side note, I sort of like the new deathcap, but not to REPLACE the original rabadon's. There's been a lot of replacing going on here, though, so go figure...)
"As for the items forcing team fights, the main reason for this is lack of wards. Even wriggles has been replaced with a temporary, low-range invis-breaker. This encourages ganks/teamfights, because you can't see skirmishes coming, so you are forced to stay close to your team or the turret. Since you need to take the capture points to win (I still say this is--or will be--a must in ranked games), that means you run around with your team.
I forget the names of the new items, but another example would be the new item that gives you 200-300 hp on enemy kill. It's a dps item, similar to yomu's ghost blade. It could be argued that it's a diving-item, or at least that was the intention, considering it gives armor pen as well. However, in reality it will be used more as a bruiser-teamfight item. It lets a bruiser stay alive in a team fight even longer, because enemy assists ALSO give hp."
4. In Dominion you have capture points that need to be defended to win the game. In the new TT, you must capture 2 points to win the game--not because it's the objective, but because if the other team gets these points, every 90 seconds or so, you lose. That forces you to lane less and teamfight more, even from level 1, the same as dominion. I mentioned this in the first point as well, but I think it needs to be restated.
5. The summoner portal is TOO far, now, away from everything else, just like Dominion. No one is gonna be able to defend their own base, even on the same level as Summoner's Rift, with the portal that far away. Maybe if the fountain laser attacked enemies right at the beginning of the ramp it would be better, but that's not the case, and the laser seems weaker, for some reason, than the old TT laser.
What this feels like is the same aspect of Dominion, where you can retreat to safety, only at one of the capture points, and that's gonna do nothing to help you win the game. Pretty much, you defend until you die, which is fast, even under the turret, when the enemy team has snowballed their way from the capture points. There is no way to regain your footing or stop your enemy's momentum. Maybe if there were 2 turrets by the nexus, or if the turret had increased hp/damage, but even then you probably couldn't defend it that well.
The summoner portal is removed from the game so completely, IN YOUR OWN BASE, that you have no way of defending even a semi-competent enemy that's been fed from the capture points.
I'm not trying to flame anything, but I'm just explaining why this map screams "dominion" to me and a LOT of people I know--people that have played TT a lot as well, before this.
I hope it helps.
P.S. - Personally, I have nothing against the new TT as a new map. It seems like it would be fun to people who like Dominion, for instance, but it isn't a Twisted Treeline map. It's not the same feel at all. It doesn't even feel like a smaller version of Summoner's Rift, which is why I liked the old TT. It feels like something we loved has been taken away, when we were promised it was only going to be altered/fixed.
@Vesh
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