Originally Posted by Vesh
I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).
Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).
That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.
Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^
Copypasta from an earlier post of mine:
Let me start this post saying that I've played thousands (literally) of 3v3 games, and I play the mode almost exclusively. I played ranked to about 1650 and then got bored, but I play with and against the best on a routine basis. After logging onto the PBE and playing on the new Twisted Treeline, I decided to write this post.
This is my feedback of old vs. new.
I was a dedicated jungler for my entire time playing 3v3. Every good player knows the role is necessary, and that when played right often decides the entire game. Here are my thoughts:
- Finally updated camps to be easier and give mana/health for killing (good for widening viable jungler pool)
- No more randomization leading to cases of imbalance (consistent jungle = balanced jungle)
- More difficult boss makes early cheese 'Dragon'ing much less viable
- Vilemaw more easily secured than Dragon when in a dominant position (now, you must be pushing out into lane to even have vision of Vilemaw as opposed to dragon where you had 3 brushes right next door to threaten even a massively ahead team from)
- New jungle route is EXTREMELY boring (seriously...walk in a triangle and kill camps, repeat)
- No buffs (new jungler role will just be for farming and gank/countergank instead of securing valuable buffs)
- Layout makes jungle fights awkward (you can randomly lose vision of champions, the altar being blocked on the sides makes maneuvering needlessly difficult)
- Speed shrine and lack of wards makes ganking too easy and too difficult to counter (self-explanatory)
- Simplicity of the jungle area makes fights less exciting (less opportunities for brush juking, kiting, etc. and lowers the impact of player skill)
- Add more terrain/brush within the jungle to make fights more interesting
- Remove speed shrine and replace it with old Grez red buff (seriously, this ain't dominion - a speed shrine means ganks are easy always, red buff adds a valuable objective that must be contested for a better gank success chance)
- Add more incentive for invading enemy jungle (right now, you can just stay in your own little triangle jungle and farm your camps with ~10 second time between full clears - there's no incentive for invading and creating awesome team fights)
- Allow wards to be purchased (wards being unavailable makes the map extremely passive - wards are what allow for aggressive plays, not fog of war)
- Points mentioned in jungle relating to accessibility of new Dragon
- Wall between nexus and summoner platform (no more gimmicky super minion pulls to stall a game for ages)
- Thicker wall to nexus (no more gimmicky backdoor attempts after getting nexus tower)
- Thicker walls between lane/jungle (makes more champions viable, as blinks don't have such a huge impact - even non-blink champions can be viable)
- Less playable area on the map stemming (from removal of top jungle and thicker walls)
- Lack of wards combined with speed shrine and brush placement makes ganking too easy and mandates extremely passive play (for good players, of course bad players might be extremely aggressive)
- Fewer objectives to contest and all are more difficult to contest (means that games will have less action and more passive farming)
- Too easy to just push top lane to deny vision of vilemaw
- Blink champions now less viable because very few walls are thin enough to dash through, and movespeed champions (e.g. Hecarim/Blitzcrank/Teemo) are now disproportionately strong
- Open up vilemaw pit or the entrances to it to be a bigger area for fighting
- Remove speed shrine (replace with old red buff as aforementioned) and allow wards to be used
- Remove walls on the sides of capturable altars (opens up more usable space for jungle fights and removes the awkward vision impediment created by these walls)
- Greater variety allows more champions to be viable (especially options for casters to deal with HP stacking tanks)
- Addition of AD/Arpen/CDR/Spellvamp item for AD casters
- No more warmog's
- Better option than Executioner's Calling to provide grievous wound
- More useful elixirs to purchase (blue buff on demand and tower push steroid to end stalemates)
- Numbers on new items may not be balanced appropriately
- No wards (maybe this was just an oversight related to using Dominion as the baseline format for this new map?)
- Vision granting items (e.g. hex sweeper/new wriggle's) insufficient for map awareness
- This element of new TT was definitely the best thought-out and executed (besides the lack of wards, obviously) of the changes; props.
- Wards, seriously. If you want an aggressive map you need wards - without them you just get unending passivity
- Look carefully at cost/stat ratio and active strength on items to balance cost vs. effective benefit
I love Twisted Treeline. As numerous as the problems were with the old Twisted Treeline map though, this new one has even more. As it currently stands, the old Twisted Treeline is, in my opinion as a long-time player and someone who understands its meta/strategy, still the superior map.
By looking carefully at the Cons and solving the problems they create, this new map could even surpass the old Twisted Treeline as the go-to map for Champion vs. Champion focused high-pace combat.