Originally Posted by ploki122
Next, pink wards and oracle still exist afaik, so if you simply hop by top and plant a ward there, they have the choice to remove them... So you are basically feeding him 100g per recall (if you plant all wards and he picks them all up).
Next, like he said, there are countless ganking paths, you can choose to come from river, jungle or lane, sure you can ward all 3 paths with 2 wards (1 in blue side top lane brush and the other in river brush), but then you lose A LOT of reaction time... heck you can even ward it farther, but if they have any dashes, they might be able to elude the river one (about 1/4th of the junglers can go around the most frequent wards, and another 1/4th-1/3rd can simply rush to you fast enough the the ward doesn't really matter, the rest can tower dive).
Oracle and pik wards also exist now and people buy wards even when they get cleared again in the next seconds again. Why? cause vision and not dying is more important than this gold. Now people don't have to use extra gold to ward. When the enemy starts clearing wards, the item will get more effective, cause you don't have to buy more wards, you only have to go b a bit more often.
Against ganks you only have to ward all 4 jungle entrances (what is possible with 2 items). Now the enemy can only gank through the lane, what is really hard to do in mid lane and costs a lot of time for bot and top. But these paths also exist now. It is not about being unable to gank, but that this item is so effective that you get all your lost money back after 3-5 mins, and it gets more effective when upgraded probably and when the enemy has oracle (cause giving the enemy another 25g is nothing compared to getting killed).
Onto the "safe farming", afaik, the other jungler probably did the same, meaning that it is a free farm vs free farm situation, going gp5 might not be the best idea unless you're stomping the opponent, in which case, it changed nearly nothing since you could already afford the ward (and/or counter-jungle/roam). Also, you considered that your lanes were saving 75g every 3 mins, meaning it only takes them 30 mins to afford the cheapest GP5, or 33 for a useful one (not Avarice), it certainly helped them snowball that lane (13-15 if you include the gp5 from the get go, which means it still only start ticking until after the lane).
Next, you say the Gp5 starts at +75, since the wards are already there, but you already used that 75g to buy your item, so remove another amount there... (covered in my post by taking the gold away from the price)
And the point you didn't cover in this, is how god damn predictable this item makes you... *you can only have 2 "siprit" wards out at 1 time*, what that means is if you rely only on this to ward everything, there will be scheduled down times in your warding to either screw your lane (unexpected gank) or screw your jungle (counter-gank when you ward)... The only fix would be a 3-ward rotation where you buy 1 stack of ward and ward mid and top at 1-1.5 mins difference, meaning that you can hop by before your ward die to plant one, and then you'll have your 2nd spirit ward open to replace the 2nd before it vanshies... But then you are still buying wards, and you are still injecting money into items that gives you 0 stats, meaning you are even weaker, meaning that you can be counter-jungled easily (Remember that you only warded mid and top? ) So basically, you ward 2 lanes (top + mid), support wards 1.25 lane (bot + a bit of lower jungle), and you are squishy in the last .75 lane... Well played, but you'll never see the end of their invades (unless you start warding your jungle with those spirit wards... which means the lanes are open for gank or poorer from wards)
Does it makes an item less OP when both teams buy it 2 times all the time? Making one item a must have on 2 roles. And this item produces gold all the time like a g/10.
Your lanes are saving 75g every 3 min (but top and mid, so it is 150g). And how much does a g/10 item give?
New item: 50g per min that go into wards for around 200g costs for that stat.
g/10 items (except for philo stone): 30g per min for around 200-250g costs for that stat (and 100g per min of that gold went into wards).
How does having 2 wards at a time and 4 wards with you make you predictable. Like normal warding (you see the amount of wards) you can ward what you need to do. there will be no down time when you go b every 6 min once. You can place a new one before the old one runs out, what removes the old one (like Cait traps). No downtime.
And what stops you from getting 1-2 extra wards if you need them? 2 times that item only covers the minimal ward coverage needed while being more effective (67%) than every current g/10 item.
HoG vs the ward item:
200 HP + 30g per min; 825g
125 HP + 50g per min (and more if the enemy has an oracle, but you need to go b a bit more often); 650g
What is the difference? That you are forced to use that gold on wards? Cause this item covers the minimum requirement on wards if you get 2 of it in your team, so you don't waste gold on wards.
Less HP for lower costs? true. 75 HP less for saving 175g.
The real difference will be the upgrade and that it is not good to buy on all champs. only the jungler and support would want to have it. a 3rd will probably be wasted, but even if you use only 5 wards every 4 min (Xyph said this is the minimum you actually want) the top laner can actually buy it and use only one ward every 3 min and it will stay effective.