Originally Posted by KingSnafu

top is near the bottom because like is said above if you see someone picks jax you can then counter him with malph making them either have to be really good at jax and u bad at malph if thats not the case u win the lane, whereas with support counters affect them very little compared to the rest, also every champ has a counter so if you are near last theres a very good chance you already know who there top is going to be and can then counter it

Originally Posted by Vonstahl

I think you are fogetting about lane synergy, skill, and counter building

While counter picks are always helpful and do "set you up to win the lane" unless the other mid has a jungle with great lane synergy, now I havent played ranked, just with people who have because I am more into playing for the joy then getting a rating based on my relative skill, so I cant think of any off the top of my head (if you know as much as you lead on you should be able to) however I think that lane synergy could undo all that your counter pick does and get 2 people fed (assists give gold too) instead of 1 and now the jungler has stronger ganks for the other lanes lowering the chances of the jungler being bot ready to gank but making the reprcausions for getting that cs a lot worse if he is, also with skill you can often work your way around many situations, I have seen many counter picks fall flat of there faces just because they pick a champ to counter pick

I think you have some good points in that there is a general preference however I think I would like to pick shen first if not banned and he is rarly a support, I may also think of champs who can be in multiple rolls like malph who can jungle, top, mid, and I have seen support. So I think there are many other factors to look at

also whoever said the people under 20 are the problem, I am a few years under 20 and have been in very few cases a problem, I learned the mechanics, comps, strats, items, and champs and am now working on synergys and counters, I think the problem is just the community in general not really a specific demographic exept for those who haven figured the game out, and thats not a problem they just need practice and in many cases to get more mature (something many adults are still working on

Originally Posted by Vonstahl

ya because that 4th pick blitz doesnt turn all teamfights into a 4v5 right, by now they have picked a carry and if they took kog for instence late game thats the teamfight right there unless they have a jex irelia

plz pardon my spelling

Originally Posted by KingSnafu

you really have no argument this is all just a bunch of random what ifs. I can say What if X to absolutely any good idea besides the laws of physics and even those can change with time.

Originally Posted by Vonstahl

arnt you indirectly having a what if for your pick order?
if you pick top first instead of support what if they counter pick it?
answer "well in many cases (assuming = skill) it will be more of a problem in top lane
you do this repeatedly to come up with the order no?