Originally Posted by DarkPsx
Good to keep this thread going. I'm still in Asia right now so I'm only on occasionally.
The reason I put out my initial post as just a simple outline/guideline is because my belief as a serious competitive gamer comes from a very solid understanding of basic mechanics of a game. The cool part about that is that I apply this to many things in life, not just in games.
---After just proof reading this, I realize this is a kind of corny way of trying to explain ELO. But I had fun writing it, so feel free to just stop reading here if you don't like "wasting your time"
Let me take a physics course as an example. Lets just assume there is an ELO in a university physics course, just for fun. Your ranked matches would then come from your homework assignments which would most likely be worth about a plus or minus 15 points per assignment, and test scores which might be able to affect your score by about 50 points per exam.
50% on homework = 0 rating change.
0% on homework = -15 rating change.
100% on homework = +15 rating change.
50% on exam = 0 rating change.
0% on exam = -50 rating change
100% on exam = +50 rating change
To get the highest score in your class, you need to work hard in order to learn the material - all the material, how it correlates, and how to apply it to build on your knowledge of mechanics. To learn all of these things, you must master the basics. How will you learn the more advanced levels of play and dive into more material without the complete knowledge of basics?
Players in the intermediate range (around 1475 - 1825) are like those people in physics class ( and I'm talking as an estimate, my disclaimer is that there are always exceptions) who get away with 70%'s on all their exams, the occasional 100% on homework and maybe they just forgot to turn in a few assignments (and therefore a 0%). If they work hard to get 100% consistently and prove their know the material, there are better chances that they will get 100%'s on future exams because the knowledge builds on top of the past exams, and therefore their personal rating will go up.
However, I know this is a team effort. You need to rely on your teamates to also get high scores in order for the team to do well. But this post strictly toward how to help understand why the basics are important and how it may correlate into a better rating. If you yourself as a player start improving with these ideas, there is a better chance that your team will win, because YOU have improved.
I know this was really corny, and probably a boring read. But knowledge in this game, whether it is helping yourself or somebody else, raises the bar in a competitive game over time. If you look at it from a personal point of view, it is simple to see - you play a carry, you get lucky, you catch the other team in a bad spot, you team wins and get a better rating. If you are able to look at it from the big picture, You win - players ask you how you did this and that, you tell them. They then tell their friends. Their friends might be nice enough to share with others as well. And from that, you have singlehandedly raised the bar in competitive play - adding a not so well known factor into the pool. This is how ideas are shared, knowledge is absorbed AND BUILT UPON, and great/talented players are formed.
Keep this in mind for all your future gaming endeavors - you will be surprised what you can come up with using an approach like this. Suddenly it won't be as much "looking up what the pro's do and doing it", more like "watching what the pro's do and figure out possible ways to creatively express it yourself when you are able to improve upon it".
I would like everyone to continue this thread, no matter what their viewpoint. The collective of all of our opinions are what make this thread more and more useful to our gaming community.
that's...not exactly how ELO works. you're right. it's corny. and it's far over-simplified. what LoL uses isnt' strictly an ELO system. i think it's just called that because it's the closest analogy. in fact, i don't ever remember any official riot staff ever calling it ELO. i think it's purely a community term.
ELO is suppose to be a normal curve. what you've described is a right shift curve.that may not be what is decribed in LoL. in fact i would bet it's actually a left shift. as in most cases it's a left shift for chess and go. also, it's possibel to not gain or lose ranking in a real ELO system. in league, you always gain points after a match, or you always lose points.
we dont' have access to all of the ranking Data. for the most part, you're going to see a 'left shift' in ELO, meaning the median is below the average. and the actual average is below the for-seen average. IE, i would bet that the median ELO ranking is around 850, adn the average is around 1k for the total distrubtion. meaning the majority of players are 'unranked.'
ideally, because when you first enter ranked you're at this ELO, the average is somewhere between 1100-1300. or about 1200. that being said, an 'intermediate' player should be around this ranking. (dont' know where you got 1400+ as intermediate, that's absurd)
you dont' want to rank all of your intermediate players. only the 'upper' echelons of intermediates shoudl be in the rankings. otherwise there's just too much data to report. i don't knwo the total size of the LoL player base. but between smurf accounts and the people tha tonly play 4 or 5 ranked games, there's a ton of data that needs to be filtered. because some people on the ranking board don't play consistantly enough to be a valid statistic.
so our actual 'intermediate' range is below 1200.
things are split into standard deviations, and categories. you gain/lose the most points when you first enter ranked. i think this is a bad idea, because draft selction is far, far, far different than blind selection. there's no time to adjust to the learning curve. there's no 'practice' phase. there's no draft selection for normal games, so there's no real way to practice, other than custom games. and that's not always a good choice, because the spread is way too big, and lots of people there are going to be trying new champs.
ELO, in its most successful form, is used in chess and go. which are 1v1. because this is 5v5, your individual rating doesnt' mean a lot. ELO should really be made for teams. because you're not against any single individual when you're playing, there's no way to determine how well you're actually doing. aside from KDA, minion kills, and tower kills. but even this can be tricky. there are no assists for tower kills. which are essential for winning the game. a tower kill is worth far more than a champion.
minions are like pawns, champs are like knights, and towers are more like queens. except there's also the added complexity of scaling. our knights eventually become stronger than our queens. and you can also do extremely well by killing only minions (Sivir). but i still think it's a valid analogy, because you can lose a chess game without losing your queen, and you can demorilize your opponent enough in LoL and win without taking any towers. of course this is extremely rare.
in a nutshell: the other places ELO is used there are a set number of points on the board. in GO, there are only so many teritories to capture, and chess, there are only so many pieces you can take
for LoL, the number of pieces varies because of spawning based on time. that being said, you could be awarded points based on the duration of the match, and the total potential points available from board, or map, objectives.
of course the problem with this is KSing. there is also no mechanic to get an assist on a tower kill. so if you're pushing a tower, and your minion happens to steal the last hit on a tower, you lose potential points. it also doesnt' provide any rewards for support champs. as support champs like Soraka or Sona dont' take towers, don't take map objectives like golem or lizard or dragon. they are there to help the other players.
As Soraka, i don't ult to get assists. i could, but that's not always when my global heal is needed. more often than not, it acts as an 'oh ****!' button. so support champs are pretty much doomed to having low scores, especially ones like Soraka and Sona.
a fix for this is to allow kills and assists to be worth the same amount of ELO. but even then that's more of a bandaid. creating a good balanced ranking system for a game as complex as LoL is a duanting task. there are too many things to keep in mind. a champ like Soraka helps mainly with her healing and debuffing. but if you add healing into the point system, summonres who use mundo have an advantage, as he's the best healer in the game. you could essentially stack health, dive a team, get low, and then just ult to inflate your rating.
it's harder for us to understand, because we
1) don't have all the data riot does. and they aren't likely to release it. (for good reason)
2) the rules and formula for calculating rank aren't defined publically. (that i'm aware of, and for good reason)
3) there are players that are over-ranked and players that are under-ranked. throwing off any manual collection of data on our end to try to reverse engineer the formula.
what we do know is this: you win, you gain points. you lose, you lose points. that's really all their is to it.
so essentially, if Riot wanted to use a real ELO system. it would have to be team based, or restricted to 5v5 and 3v3 arranged teams with 5 or 3 players respectively with a clan tag
to hold the win/loss ratio for the team, rather than the individual. that would mean 'free-lance.' summoners would not be able to hold a ranking. or it woudl be some agregate of the ranking for all of the teams they've played for
the soloqueue is mainly for practice. as the ranking system really only puts you near the rating you're suppose to be (within say 200).
there's also a mentality that there's somethign wrong with being unranked. the e-peen and e-gina people get too worked up. if anything you need to encourage people that being unranked isn't a bad thing. it just is what it is. yes, there are problems. yes, there are plenty of people that are under-ranked. but if you're really serious about the competitive scene: join a clan.