Originally Posted by wildfire393
You know that Ricochet drains mana by the shot, right? Assuming that Armor Pen and Attackspeed gave roughly the same DPS (which is wrong, Armor Pen will always give more) and thus kill all of the creeps in roughly the same amount of time, Armor Pen will do it using less mana, as you will attack fewer times (for more) in that period. Attack speed gives you more attacks that deal less, and thus drains more mana. Additionally, you are already stacking all kinds of Attackspeed, between possibly 'Zerk greaves, Stark's Fervor, and potentially Last Whisper (one of the best tower-killing items, so definitely not out of place on Sivir). Attackspeed essentially has diminishing returns. At low levels, 40% attackspeed gives you basically a 40% increase to your DPS. But the second 40% only gives ~25% increase in DPS.
Yes I know it drains mana by the shot. I misunderstood what you were saying. I was saying that having attack speed does not make ricochet cost MORE then not having attack speed.
Ill tell you what, Ill give them another try and see if they make a difference.
However, attack speed does indeed increase the early game last hitting more then armor pen. After a few games with Sivir (as most champs) you get a feel for the last hitting. Sivirs is pretty easy. We also have BB which will do mass damage to the creep wave. I find early game that the very large boost to attack speed I get from runes and masteries is the difference between getting most or all of the last hits. Because were doing damage across the entire wave, and our wave is doing so as well, I find getting the next attack out faster gives me a better chance to last hit more creeps. Armor Pen would make me do a tiny little bit more damage (we arent working with huge numbers at this point) but I find I need to throw the extra blades around because there are quite a few enemy creeps to last hit in a short period of time. Its this, I find, that makes the difference between getting chalice and scepter on first blue pill or getting chalice scepter AND boots.
Originally Posted by wildfire393
As for masteries, the defense tree is honestly pretty terrible on Sivir, IMHO. 9/0/21 or 17/0/13 are the ways to go. The effects it gives, besides Scars, are incredibly minor. 4% Mitigation might seem like a lot when you look at the raw damage numbers, but raw damage numbers mean bunk. Most of the time, if you die, you are overkilled, and by much more than 4%. I would say maybe once in five to ten games I barely miss escaping, where 4% reduction might have saved me. And it seems likely in those scenarios that if I was missing my 3% run speed I wouldn't have even gotten that far.
Your also missing out on 2% dodge and 10% MS from dodge. Of course you dont run dodge seals so this may just be why. I find stacking dodge on her makes a HUGE difference for escaping and that 10% MS buff happens nearly every time I run. I wouldnt even dream of not taking those 2 from the defense tree.
As to the mitigation, your right, 4% isnt going to save you from a bursted overkill. However, it does make a VERY large difference early on when combined with the other defensive masteries. The lot of them together make dealing with your early health regen a lot easier (and this will be doubly important as soon as they hack off 50 range from her as you will be even closer to the enemy) and plays a HUGE role in getting early kills.
I find my early kills as Sivir usually come from my oponent misjudging if they can kill me. Its a combination of the suprising burst of BB, increased atack speed, Rally and my defensive masteries. I take these masteries as I find them to give the largest boost to Sivirs early game. As we all know a good early game leads to a great late game (or mid game in Sivirs case) and I just wouldnt give up that advantage. Its also worth mentioning that 4 (and 4%) less damage per creep attack, when your battling it out against another player in the midst of a creep wave has you taking a LOT less damage then they are. This can be another HUGE factor in the mid battle.
I play Sivir with the early starks strat foremost in mind as I believe it to be the strongest strat in the game. My mastery choices are based on making it as succesful as possible. In order to insure that happens, you MUST win the battle for mid. I find no other setup gives me a better chance then my 9/21/0.
It does need to be said again though that you use a different rune setup. Perhaps with your, your mastery setup works better. I do know though that mine, with the attack speed stacking gives phenominal results.
Originally Posted by wildfire393
Also, in regards to the mana from Utility, I've run with flat MP/5 seals, 1 Quint, and 2 mp/5@18 Glyphs, and I do grab Chalice right away. One game, I forgot to switch my masteries back from the previous game where I played a mana-less champ, and I really felt it. With my set-up, you can spam BB every time it is up (and I run 15% base CDR between glyphs and masteries, so that's a lot) while leaving Ricochet on most of the time and still having mana for SS/On the Hunt. And you honestly need all this to be effective. I get 7.5 from chalice, ~5 from runes, and we'll call it 2.5 naturally at early levels. This means cutting out Meditation loses you a quarter of your total MP regen. That's significant, especially as Chalice affects all your MP regen.
I run a full page of Clarity glyphs. Between that and chalice, I have absolutely no problems with mana. So much so that if the game isnt won by the strat at around level 14, I will sell chalice and subsists, quite perfectly I might add) with just my clarity glyphs, spellshield and natural regen. I really dont think, if your buying a chalice and running mana regen runes, that you need any more mana regen. I spam my abilities heavily and never have a problem with mana regen. Perhaps your leaving ricochet on to much? There are actually only a very few times to put it on:
3 or more creeps (any less and its just not worth having ricochet on if your tight on mana)
Attacking a tower and first creep of incomming wave shows itself.
Aside from that, ricochet should be toggled off.
I just really cant see going for more mana regen. I even sell the chalice if it gets to late game!
Anyways just seems like small variances for the same build. Both are likely perfectly viable. I just prefer attack speed stacking and the....longevity I get from defense masteries.