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Soul shroud revamp and new item suggestion

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catchycactus ?? Junior Member
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06-24-2011

Soul Shroud Revamp
I'll start by saying that I really think soul shroud is an underrated item. That being said the item needs a change. The reason it isn't used is because it is perfectly viable for very few heroes. I use it on sona because every stat on it is nice for her and being an aura wench is kind of already her thing. The main problem with the item in my opinion is the mana per 5. It feels tacked on and makes it feel unusable by tanks and non mana users. I spent a lot of time thinking about what could change the item without making it too good. I thought that a new stat that increased enemy cool down times would be a perfect addition to the item. I would imagine that 5% increased enemy cool down timers would be ideal but that isn't my call.

An example of this mechanic would be that an enemy uses their ultimate in range of soul shroud's aura. The cool down period on their ultimate would be 5% longer. If this makes the item too much of a bargian at the price than a recipe increase could be in order but I imagine that removing the mana manipulator and keeping the price the same would work. This would probably result in the removal of mana manipulator from the game or a new item that uses it but I don't think it would change much either way.

New stats would be:
+520 Health UNIQUE Aura: Gives nearby Champions: 5% increased enemy cool down times and 10% reduced Cooldowns.

TL;DR: Remove mp/5 from soul shroud and give it 5% increased enemy cool down times to the aura.

New buff related item
My other idea is a completely fresh item that would use the power of the red and blue buffs to power the item. I spent a lot of time thinking of what would go into the item and I have a few ideas that involve combining two of three possible items to create a "tailored to you" item.

1) Combine two of the three from hex drinker, catalyst the protector, and fiendish codex.
Red buff would increase the damage from hexdrinker, spell power from fiendish codex, and increase your health regen from catalyst.
Blue buff would increase the magic resist from hex drinker, increase the cooldown reduction of fiendish codex, and increase your mana regen from catalyst.

2) Combine two of the three from brutalizer, warden's mail, haunting guise.
Red buff would increase the damage from brutalizer, make the slow from warden's mail 100%, and increase the spell power from haunting guise.
Blue buff would increase the cooldown reduction of brutalizer, increase the armor of warden's mail, and increase the spell pen from haunting guise

The buffs would automatically be consumed by the weapon and activating the weapon would release them, giving you the buff. In event of receiving both of them from a kill, the weapon would flash from red to blue for 10-15 seconds. Activating the item when it is a certain color would lock it as that and release the other buff onto your character.

TL;DR: Weapon that receives bonuses from consuming red/blue buffs.

My idea for the weapon name would be Blade of the Elder's or for something more jungle/forest related, Oak blade.

 
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Elaith Elaith's Avatar ?? Adjudicator
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06-24-2011

This is some pretty heavy stuff, I really like these ideas and would love to see them implemented. Maybe not exactly like this but something similar would be really cool.

 
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catchycactus ?? Junior Member
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06-24-2011

A different take on how to make this soul shroud change viable would be to make a new smaller item. This item could be the same price as kindle gem and take a ruby crystal but instead just give the 5% increased enemy cool down timer. This would make soul shroud cost basically the same but make the building of it smoother, in that it would just take kindle gem and the new opposite kindle gem item.
This obviously isn't necessary but I think it would make this make even more sense.

 
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Danrax Danrax's Avatar ?? Adjudicator
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06-24-2011

Here we go

 
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PhailRaptor PhailRaptor's Avatar ?? Adjudicator
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06-24-2011

Woah, it's really blue in this thread O.o And not even on the Adjudicator forum O.O

My problem with your Soul Shroud change is that the item is built out of a Mana Manipulator. You'd have to remove it and replace it with something else. The problem then becomes, what do you replace it with? The only stats on the item that can be found in other items are the health, which is completely covered already by Kindlegem and Ruby, and CDR, very little of which is on small items that don't also have AP. You kind of create a stat-void in the item. You could simply increase the gold cost, but that was previously a problem with other items where you want to get the item, but you end up sitting there holding the pieces for a disproportionately long time before you can combine it (see old Glacial Shroud and original Zhonya's Ring).

As for the buff-powered item, it sounds like something beyond a jungler's wildest dreams. But depending on the stats of the item, it could bring on a jungle dominated meta, where teams always consist of a dedicated jungler, and a champion that could jungle, but can lane just as well, in the event the other team does not have a jungler. If the other team does not have a jungler, your 2 junglers split the map down the center lane, instead of the river, and both of them farm up this item, grab their "buff batteries" and proceed to completely destroy the other team.

Obviously, no one wants to lose at the load screen, so there would be a jungler in every single game again. But that means this item is forcing you to change the way you play the game entirely. I can draw a parallel to Zhonya's Ring being split into 2 items here. The old AP + stasis Ring created an environment where the team with more AoE ults compatible with Zhonya's was the team that won. Crowstorm, Soul Shackles, Slicing Maelstrom, etc.

It's an awesome idea, but I can't really see a way for the buff-bonuses to not cause severe balance problems for the game : / Let alone an item that, from the stats of it's component items, isn't crazy powerful already.

 
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catchycactus ?? Junior Member
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06-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
Woah, it's really blue in this thread O.o And not even on the Adjudicator forum O.O

My problem with your Soul Shroud change is that the item is built out of a Mana Manipulator. You'd have to remove it and replace it with something else. The problem then becomes, what do you replace it with? The only stats on the item that can be found in other items are the health, which is completely covered already by Kindlegem and Ruby, and CDR, very little of which is on small items that don't also have AP. You kind of create a stat-void in the item. You could simply increase the gold cost, but that was previously a problem with other items where you want to get the item, but you end up sitting there holding the pieces for a disproportionately long time before you can combine it (see old Glacial Shroud and original Zhonya's Ring).

As for the buff-powered item, it sounds like something beyond a jungler's wildest dreams. But depending on the stats of the item, it could bring on a jungle dominated meta, where teams always consist of a dedicated jungler, and a champion that could jungle, but can lane just as well, in the event the other team does not have a jungler. If the other team does not have a jungler, your 2 junglers split the map down the center lane, instead of the river, and both of them farm up this item, grab their "buff batteries" and proceed to completely destroy the other team.

Obviously, no one wants to lose at the load screen, so there would be a jungler in every single game again. But that means this item is forcing you to change the way you play the game entirely. I can draw a parallel to Zhonya's Ring being split into 2 items here. The old AP + stasis Ring created an environment where the team with more AoE ults compatible with Zhonya's was the team that won. Crowstorm, Soul Shackles, Slicing Maelstrom, etc.

It's an awesome idea, but I can't really see a way for the buff-bonuses to not cause severe balance problems for the game : / Let alone an item that, from the stats of it's component items, isn't crazy powerful already.

Thanks for the input.
Did you get a chance to read my second post?
If you didn't get a chance, I suggested that a new item using the increased cool down mechanic could be made which would be very similar to kindle gem, except with the new cool down mechanic. This would actually leave soul shroud being only two items with pretty much the same stats just using the new cool down stat. I think this would actually eliminate the problems you specifically brought up, especially the holding items for a long period of time. The total cost would be about 75 gold more but you wouldn't have to ever go more than 450 gold without being able to spend it.
Let's face it, mana manipulator is the reason soul shroud is under used. No one would miss the item and if riot likes they idea, they should make a new item that actually uses it as the key feature ( innervating ) instead of tacking it onto to another item to devalue it.

About your points on the buff item. This item could easily be used by a non jungle champion. The fact that you can hold onto the buff until you die, if you choose, makes the buffs themselves much more of a commodity than the act of killing the golem/lizard themselves. This would make counter jungling or protecting your jungle equally as important for the item as actually jungling. The item isn't intended to be the next madred's or wriggles, its purpose is to make the buffs viable to every character and make a team want to feed the buffs to whoever gets the item, just as a team usually tries to give their ad carry red and their ap carry blue. With this, priorities could get even deeper.

Another thing about the item is that the stat changes from the buffs would not be drastic. The buffs themselves would generally be more advantageous to have and part of using the item would be knowing when to release the buff to benefit from it. My general idea was to take some mid game items that are rarely used, unless as placeholders till their upgraded counterpart, and create something out of them without turning them into something different. Especially warden's mail which is a mechanic that disappears when you upgrade it. I believe the reason these items aren't used is because they end up wasting space end game and people would rather go straight for high tier items. Combining these items, keeping them true to themselves, and creating something unique from them was my goal.

 
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Treedog ?? Member
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06-24-2011

Bump, i like this idea alot

 
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Shaboinker ?? Senior Member
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06-24-2011

bump

 
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PhailRaptor PhailRaptor's Avatar ?? Adjudicator
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06-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchycactus View Post
Thanks for the input.
Did you get a chance to read my second post?
I did not. Reading it now, it could be good. At the same time though, it's pretty much another Kindlegem, just affecting enemy cooldowns instead of yours. But something could probably be worked out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchycactus View Post
Let's face it, mana manipulator is the reason soul shroud is under used. No one would miss the item and if riot likes they idea, they should make a new item that actually uses it as the key feature ( innervating ) instead of tacking it onto to another item to devalue it.
Soul Shroud has had a Manipulator in it's recipe for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing LoL since the Launch Celebration right after the Beta ended. I will admit, Soul Shroud's remake left the mana regen aura feeling out of place, but when the item was created it was the core purpose of the item. Also, with Locket gone (or at the very least, on an extended vacation) Sona is kind of trapped getting Soul Shroud. She needs some pretty hefty mana regen that just isn't available in a support capacity. Sure, she could get it off of Morello's or another AP item, but then she's playing a support as a nuker, and that leads to things like DPS Soraka solo mid.... but I'm wandering away from my point. The mana regen wasn't "tacked on" -- more "left behind".

Moving on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchycactus View Post
About your points on the buff item. This item could easily be used by a non jungle champion. The fact that you can hold onto the buff until you die, if you choose, makes the buffs themselves much more of a commodity than the act of killing the golem/lizard themselves. This would make counter jungling or protecting your jungle equally as important for the item as actually jungling. The item isn't intended to be the next madred's or wriggles, its purpose is to make the buffs viable to every character and make a team want to feed the buffs to whoever gets the item, just as a team usually tries to give their ad carry red and their ap carry blue. With this, priorities could get even deeper.
Yes, but all of this makes jungle control a very high priority in the game. A team with a jungler should have just as much chance of winning as a team without a jungler, as long as the ganker role is still filled. True, you can also control your own jungle without a jungler in it. But I just feel that this is setting up the situation for the jungle being the deciding factor in the match, rather than the teamfights or the pushes, which I don't feel is right. It's possible it could be done without having toxic impacts on the game, but it feels kind of like the discovery of Jungle Eve...

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchycactus View Post
Another thing about the item is that the stat changes from the buffs would not be drastic. The buffs themselves would generally be more advantageous to have and part of using the item would be knowing when to release the buff to benefit from it.
Oh, so it would work more like DotA's Magic Bottle and Rune in a Bottle. Missed that part. Well, that changes things a bit then. So the item has it's own stats, then when it has a buff stored, it gives more stats, then can be used to give you the buff, but loses the stats it gained from the buff. That seems much more serviceable.

On a mostly unrelated note:

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchycactus View Post
My general idea was to take some mid game items that are rarely used, unless as placeholders till their upgraded counterpart, and create something out of them without turning them into something different. I believe the reason these items aren't used is because they end up wasting space end game and people would rather go straight for high tier items. Combining these items, keeping them true to themselves, and creating something unique from them was my goal.
I feel that that is just a perception. People do view mid game items as a waste of space -- look at all the flak Hexdrinker gets -- but it really is nothing but perception. Most people who play LoL focus only on getting kills, like a FPS. And generally, LoL does play like a FPS. But if people would stop worrying so much about their 1337 deepz and actually think about building different ways, a lot of items we have wouldn't be so underrated. Just an opinion, but maybe it will open a few eyes ^_^

 
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catchycactus ?? Junior Member
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06-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
I did not. Reading it now, it could be good. At the same time though, it's pretty much another Kindlegem, just affecting enemy cooldowns instead of yours. But something could probably be worked out there.



Soul Shroud has had a Manipulator in it's recipe for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing LoL since the Launch Celebration right after the Beta ended. I will admit, Soul Shroud's remake left the mana regen aura feeling out of place, but when the item was created it was the core purpose of the item. Also, with Locket gone (or at the very least, on an extended vacation) Sona is kind of trapped getting Soul Shroud. She needs some pretty hefty mana regen that just isn't available in a support capacity. Sure, she could get it off of Morello's or another AP item, but then she's playing a support as a nuker, and that leads to things like DPS Soraka solo mid.... but I'm wandering away from my point. The mana regen wasn't "tacked on" -- more "left behind".

Moving on.



Yes, but all of this makes jungle control a very high priority in the game. A team with a jungler should have just as much chance of winning as a team without a jungler, as long as the ganker role is still filled. True, you can also control your own jungle without a jungler in it. But I just feel that this is setting up the situation for the jungle being the deciding factor in the match, rather than the teamfights or the pushes, which I don't feel is right. It's possible it could be done without having toxic impacts on the game, but it feels kind of like the discovery of Jungle Eve...



Oh, so it would work more like DotA's Magic Bottle and Rune in a Bottle. Missed that part. Well, that changes things a bit then. So the item has it's own stats, then when it has a buff stored, it gives more stats, then can be used to give you the buff, but loses the stats it gained from the buff. That seems much more serviceable.

On a mostly unrelated note:



I feel that that is just a perception. People do view mid game items as a waste of space -- look at all the flak Hexdrinker gets -- but it really is nothing but perception. Most people who play LoL focus only on getting kills, like a FPS. And generally, LoL does play like a FPS. But if people would stop worrying so much about their 1337 deepz and actually think about building different ways, a lot of items we have wouldn't be so underrated. Just an opinion, but maybe it will open a few eyes ^_^

I would have to agree that not all those items are a waste of space. I really think haunting guise has a place in the game as it is but I hate seeing an item with a unique mechanic like warden's mail only be used until someone can get their randuin's.

I would just love to see two or more people have the same item but have completely different stats on them. Like a caster with the guise/warden's mail version holding a blue buff and then a melee/tank with the brutalizer/warden's mail holding a red buff. Hell, let's throw an akali in there with brutalizer/haunting guise holding either buff.

Buff control is already a big part of the game but it's held mainly for lvl 1 team fights and counter jungling. I think this item could give incentive for more mid game jungle team fights.

These concepts are based off of what I have seen mainly in my experiences in ranked. Only getting up to 1791 there is a lot of meta game I have not experienced but my intentions and honest belief is that this item could be viable for any hero if used the right way.

Oh and I just don't think that 12 mp5 is a selling point for any hero when items like Philosopher's stone and Tear into (mid to late) archangels are so easy for a support to pick up and hold onto until the can be turned into useful late game items.
The aura aspect is a nice idea but generally there is at least one non mana user on the team and anyone who plans on being low on mana isn't going to/shouldn't rely on their support to be a very low voltage mana battery.
I just see this changing opening up this item to a lot of heroes who might not have felt it was an option before. I would love this item in my tanky/support kennen build or other semi tank characters. Besides, reverie could easily fill the void for anyone who felt they needed the cdr and mana at the same time. They could even replace the philo stone with the mana manipulator if they really needed to keep it in the game.

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