Just an observation from 3v3 and 5v5 is that if you leave Singed alone, he can and will clear entire creep waves in seconds. Could that somehow be toned down?

It doesn't matter how hard you destroy him during the laning phase since he is perhaps the only champion that doesn't need items to do more effective farming: level 9 and he's good to go.

I just don't think it's fair that a champion can fail early and easily farm through the rest of the game, ending up just as good as any other tank due to his superior farming ability.

This is enormously evident in 3v3, where Singed can farm to become unkillable while still using his poison to endlessly deal DoT.


Tl;dr: Can Singed's poison damage to creeps (not champions) be reduced?

Morde clears creeps. Zilean clears creeps. Annie clears creeps. Galio clears creeps. Practically everyone with AoE spells can, you guessed it, clear creeps. This isn't particularly new or interesting.

Karthus? Anivia? Or is it because he is a tanky dps? (thats right singed is not a tank) some champs creep farm well. Amazingly well. Anivia comes to mind when I say amazingly well. It happens.

Singed tanky DPS? hardly. More of a utility off-tank like blitz or maokai.


His main purpose isn't damage, it's creating opportunities for his team via slow/flip/gas.

Giltia, your champions need AP to farm. Mid- to lategame their base stats just won't work, and they won't have AP if shut down early.

But since Singed's poison isn't limited to cooldowns, Karthus and Anivia are likewise excellent farmers, as GoldDraco pointed out. But they aren't played on 3v3 (which has its own ladder; it merits some balancing).

Singed's role, whatever one calls it, invloves staying alive to some degree. With his 25 second ultimate and effortless farming, he's as good as any tank in this respect.

The difference? Other tanky champions, if thrashed earlygame, can't farm well, which is the crux of my argument. To clarify: Singed farms amazingly well even if he has a horrible early game, allowing him to too easily fill his role(s) every match. Agree or disagree, I hope you at least understand what I'm saying.

But this is exactly it; Singed doesn't have this farm capability until mid game.
****ting him down early is one of your priorities so that by the time he can farm effectively, your carries are strong enough to beat him down to slow down his item building.

But in 5v5, carries rarely have the time or patience to be chasing down Singed, who has excellent escape tools. He consequently gets left alone and farms while the carry also farms, or, alternatively, fights. When lategame teamfights break out, he's well farmed and lives long enough to slow and fling, if not longer.

In 3v3, trying to kill Singed is ridiculous "mid"game. My idea on his lategame domination is in my first post.

Just cutting out all the fluff to point out exactly where you lost all face.

Game isn't balanced around 3v3. Get over it and move on.

As well, Galio needs NO AP to farm, Morde needs no AP to farm, Zilean and Annie are building AP anyways so it's really an irrelevant point you're trying to make.

I didn't specify that your carries should be focusing on him all game. Anyone could harrass him periodically so as to force a fault from him. The fact that he has to basically be scratching your head to damage you in more than enough for any ranged champ to hit him every so often during laning phase to poke him back and forth.

Also, it would be worth your time to take note of the fact that ganking (no matter how little of it your team does) is a very effective way of shutting him down. Having a double or triple team on him for 1minute of your time could save you the other 30minutes of your game licking your wounds.

<edit> Did i mention that i main karma and singed and have over 700 games with him. Having someone like Ashe just thwack me in the face for the first 15 minutes of the game not only ruins my early farm, but in some cases it's sooooo annoying that it ruins my tempo and my mentality to discern when a good time to commit a Fling is; thus netting them a kill/assist.

also playing a lot of singed, i see very little that is imbalanced with him. as the tank he should not be spending much time farming away from his team, though when he does he is very good at it but he's very much not the only champion with that talent.

i also don't care about 3v3 balance. a champion that is balanced in 5v5 will not be balanced in 3v3 and vice versa.